Tonight's Public Forum

[Andrew..]

Pretty much agree to everything you've stated Canteen.
Just for my personal interest, can you define your interpretation  of the "Northern Districts of Sydney". For me Brookie oval will always be the spiritual home of the Eagles but I would be happy to garner a little more support from the Northern Suburbs.
Something I wished we had capitalised on when the Bears died.

 

[MadMarcus]

The score is clearly on the board.  Since the NRL started:
Libs $1m
Labour $6m

That's a pretty low scoring affair there Rex.  Both sides appear to have some serious problems with their attack.  Too many dropped balls I suspect.

 

[lsz]

To be honest this thread shows all that is wrong with how the issue has been handled

What has been the strategy? What has been the "message" (Think the 2007 election...Kevin 07 was a message which was carried through. In most effect PR / lobby campaigns you need an effective message)

Regardless of the scoreboard or claims of politicians this has been handled poorly

 

[Rex]

[quote author=Rex link=topic=186590.msg319343#msg319343 date=1299119222]
The score is clearly on the board.  Since the NRL started:
Libs $1m
Labour $6m

That's a pretty low scoring affair there Rex.  Both sides appear to have some serious problems with their attack.  Too many dropped balls I suspect.
[/quote]
Very low scoring on both sides Marcus.  And the Libs are inevitably going into office this month and they have already promised $3.5m to a NRL team that doesn't even exist and zero, zip, squat to Manly.

No wonder there was some emotion there at the meeting, when the best the Libs can say as they come into power is that they once suggested Labour do something to help Manly. And they have no proposals to help Manly except listening to the idea of a trust.

 

[The Wheel]

Why are your surprised Rex? The libs have treated the peninsula with contempt for years as they dont have to do any work, develop local policies etc as to get the votes needed to win the seat

 

[Canteen Worker]

What amazes me is that when stimulus spending was being undertaken (to keep building companies etc afloat) why was Brookvale not proffered as a worthwhile cause? It is significant community infrastructure that relates to the fabric of the country.

for Manlyborn, In terms of Northern Sydney, if you take the state schools region - Sydney North - it encompasses the whole Northern Beaches, north of Sydney Harbour out to virtually Parramatta and using Pennant Hills Rd as a Western border, it takes in the whole of the Central Coast.

In that area -in terms of major League and Rugby grounds, there is North Sydney Oval, Brookvale Oval, Manly Oval, Rat Park, TG Milner plus Bluetongue at Gosford plus lots of smaller grounds for Hornsby Rugby, Macquarie Uni fields, Pennant Hills AFL and other local clubs.

Take the four Rugby Grounds - Manly, Narrabeen, NSO and Millner - all would need millions and millions to be a top level field suitable for a League team. Norths are not coming back - despite the dreamers.

That leaves Brookvale as the only ground with a top level professional team playing and yet it is fast becoming a joke. In 1977 it was rated Sydney's top suburban ground in terms of facilities but apart from a little work here and there it hasn't kept pace. Gosford has its fans but there is no team to go there.

No brainer to me - put money into Brookie and make it a 21st Century Ground.

 

[[email protected]]

Welcome Christol and Charlie, don't let this be your first, and last posts on Silvertails

Thanks, but not sure I will bother again................

Interesting read and some fascinating comments.
...
I am shocked to hear that there has been no representation to State Politicians for years - as I though Kerry Sibraa and others were lobbying hard for the club. If the club has not been knocking down the door for fair treatment, that is a total scandal.

Some people obviously have no interest in letting the facts stand in the way of a good old club admin bash using all the hyperbole they can muster.

 

[Stevo]

Here Here!!

 

[DSM5]

Canteen, the problem, as I see it is that the ground is owned by the council.  Until that ends, and a trust seems like the way to go, I can't see it improving.  Lobby for that. 

 

[Rex]

[quote author=Mark from Brisbane link=topic=186590.msg319309#msg319309 date=1299106611]
Welcome Christol and Charlie, don't let this be your first, and last posts on Silvertails

Thanks, but not sure I will bother again................

Interesting read and some fascinating comments.
...
I am shocked to hear that there has been no representation to State Politicians for years - as I though Kerry Sibraa and others were lobbying hard for the club. If the club has not been knocking down the door for fair treatment, that is a total scandal.

Some people obviously have no interest in letting the facts stand in the way of a good old club admin bash using all the hyperbole they can muster.

[/quote]

Thankfully you did bother Charlie, and raised the balance and intelligence on the site. 

The counter to imbalance is balance.
The counter to disinformation is information. 

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Canteen, the problem, as I see it is that the ground is owned by the council.  Until that ends, and a trust seems like the way to go, I can't see it improving.  Lobby for that. 

A trust seems a fine idea, except where's the funding source?

 

[Jono]

[quote author=Charlie61 link=topic=186590.msg319412#msg319412 date=1299130134]
[quote author=Mark from Brisbane link=topic=186590.msg319309#msg319309 date=1299106611]
Welcome Christol and Charlie, don't let this be your first, and last posts on Silvertails

Thanks, but not sure I will bother again................

Interesting read and some fascinating comments.
...
I am shocked to hear that there has been no representation to State Politicians for years - as I though Kerry Sibraa and others were lobbying hard for the club. If the club has not been knocking down the door for fair treatment, that is a total scandal.

Some people obviously have no interest in letting the facts stand in the way of a good old club admin bash using all the hyperbole they can muster.

[/quote]

Thankfully you did bother Charlie, and raised the balance and intelligence on the site. 

The counter to imbalance is balance.
The counter to disinformation is information. 

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Canteen, the problem, as I see it is that the ground is owned by the council.  Until that ends, and a trust seems like the way to go, I can't see it improving.  Lobby for that. 

A trust seems a fine idea, except where's the funding source?
[/quote]

The funding source would be the government or private funding, just like the SCG, but there would be a specific group that would be in control of negotiations, plans, events and everything that happens at the ground. It is definately one of the best ideas I have heard from them as it takes control of the ground away from the council (very good thing), means the tax payers don't have to pay money for maintenance, putting it elsewhere (also a good thing) and finally it means that the pressure is taken off the Sea Eagles to ensure the ground is kept up to scratch. It means that we can concetrrate on running the Sea Eagles business rather than constantly worrying about where we'll be able to do that business.

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[quote author=Mark from Brisbane link=topic=186590.msg319309#msg319309 date=1299106611]
Welcome Christol and Charlie, don't let this be your first, and last posts on Silvertails

Thanks, but not sure I will bother again................

Interesting read and some fascinating comments.
...
I am shocked to hear that there has been no representation to State Politicians for years - as I though Kerry Sibraa and others were lobbying hard for the club. If the club has not been knocking down the door for fair treatment, that is a total scandal.

Some people obviously have no interest in letting the facts stand in the way of a good old club admin bash using all the hyperbole they can muster.

[/quote]

Charlie, I will just say this. It would never have become a "glorified admin bash" if others hadn't behaved the way they did. As I said in the original post, this came all about because abusive behaviour. Its not what this should be about. Yes, we are frustrated, yes we are pissed off that nothing has been done. However, pull your heads in (the club that is, not you), as whether Brad lied or not (and I mentioned this possibility in my original post as well), the hard work of Kerry's can be wiped (did I spell that right Fro?) with one stupid action.

This is the worst time to vent ones anger at the Politicains when they are one of our last hopes to get funding until the next federal election.

Also, don't think your opinion/facts aren't useful here, because they are. My post was based on what I saw and heard at that forum. If clearing up on some facts needs to be done then so be it, and you confirmed the fact that Brad could very well have been lying. That still doesn't excuse the behaviour of the others, frustrated or not and it was that behaviour that the post was about.

As I said in the post, and you can re-read it if you like, the 2 years quote could be true or not and, if true, there could be many reasons why it has been 2 years (already have state funding, federal election etc.). That is still not what the post was about.

There have been arguments on here about swearing at games and how it can be seen badly on the clubs, or signs that put a bad image on a club. That kind of behaviour does the exact same thing and when you abuse the hand that feeds you, you are walking on fire.

 

[Rex]

Yeah because if we bite the hand that is throwing their feed elsewhere, and never to us ($1m aside), who knows the consequences?

There is a time for a reality check.  In reality the Libs have fed us nothing. Unpleasant for the Lib pollies to have that exposed.  Unpleasant for those tied to the pollies.  Little wonder they'd scream "blue murder" and "unfair" when that's exposed.  But it's the truth.

When the Libs start feeding us, then stop biting that hand by all means.

 

[MadMarcus]

To give the record some perspective it should be noted that the Libs haven't thrown any feed anywhere since 2007 and Labor has been throwing feed all over the place since 1995 at State level (want a north west metro, a south west metro, and CBD metro, well you're not getting one but we are still going to spend hundreds of millions investigating the ideas) and 2007 at Federal level (school hall anyone? want to download porn at super speed?  or maybe you would just like a $900 cheque?).

We are all frustrated, but imo the Libs didn't deserve the treatment which it appears they received on this occasion.  Aside from that, I believe it was completely counterproductive.

 

[Rex]

Marcus, you're suggesting that Labor opened the cheque book on ground improvements and the Libs didn't?  That there weren't bidding wars?  That John Howard didn't throw big money at the likes of Kogarah, WIN stadium, Leichardt for their couple of NRL games a year? 

How can you know the "treatment" the Libs received, much less what they deserved to receive?  You weren't there and we have markedly conflicting accounts and there's understandably clear political bias in reporting of events.  What is clear though is that Labor has provided $6m and the Libs $1m and when Zorba sought support for Lib funding, the Libs were silent again.

 

[Fluffy]

What confuses me is that one the MP's seem to know nothing of the issue since its gone quiet over the last 2 years yet he can no longer go to the games.

One would have to think that if he had gone to jsut one game in the last 2 years he would know how deperate the ground is for funding.

Which leaves only 1 possible conclusion - He was bull****ting.

Can anyone even think otherwise?

Just another out of touch MP who has no idea about the blind sheep who will vote for him anyways needs.

Shame on you who fell for his bull****.

 

[Jono]

Rex, Leichhardt has been promised money and looks worse than us. It was promised by state Labor, not the Libs as well. As for state funding, WE HAVEN'T BEEN IN GOVERNMENT FOR 16 YEARS!! I said it before, I have no excuse for the Federal pollies, they've dropped the ball, we know this. The state pollies don't deserve the same treatment as they have never had a chance.

Also there were people that I know for a fact are members of the Greens and Labor party that also weren't happy with the behaviour. So, unless you know me you don't know whether I am politically biased or not. Are you going to say those others that are not in the party, or the ones that were in the Greens and Labor were biased to the Libs as well? I think not.

 

[MadMarcus]

Marcus, you're suggesting that Labor opened the cheque book on ground improvements and the Libs didn't?  That there weren't bidding wars?  That John Howard didn't throw big money at the likes of Kogarah, WIN stadium, Leichardt for their couple of NRL games a year? 

I'm not suggesting that at all.  I am saying the Libs haven't opened up their chequebooks for anything Federally since 2007 and anything at State level since 1995 because they haven't been in power.

How can you know the \"treatment\" the Libs received, much less what they deserved to receive?  You weren't there and we have markedly conflicting accounts and there's understandably clear political bias in reporting of events.  What is clear though is that Labor has provided $6m and the Libs $1m and when Zorba sought support for Lib funding, the Libs were silent again.

I wasn't there.  That's why I said "the treatment which it appears they received".  You may have a different view, but it appears from what I have read that they were booed and jeered.  I don't think they deserved it and I don't think it is doing anything to further the cause.

 

[Christol74]

Welcome Christol and Charlie, don't let this be your first, and last posts on Silvertails

Thanks Mark. By the way, I definitely owe you a beer some day. I got to go to the 2008 grand final thanks to you selling me two of your spare tickets at the last minute. I had been planning on watching the game at the leagues club because up until that great day in 2008 the eagles had lost every Grand Final I attended. We had a much better record when I was at the leagues club where we were one from one (96).

They were great seats and there were just enough storm supporters nearby to make it even more enjoyable.

Its a good thing Im not too overly superstitious....however, just to be safe, when we get into the Grand Final this year I better let you get the tickets  ;D

Cheers

 

[Rex]

Rex, Leichhardt has been promised money and looks worse than us. It was promised by state Labor, not the Libs as well. As for state funding, WE HAVEN'T BEEN IN GOVERNMENT FOR 16 YEARS!! I said it before, I have no excuse for the Federal pollies, they've dropped the ball, we know this. The state pollies don't deserve the same treatment as they have never had a chance.

Also there were people that I know for a fact are members of the Greens and Labor party that also weren't happy with the behaviour. So, unless you know me you don't know whether I am politically biased or not. Are you going to say those others that are not in the party, or the ones that were in the Greens and Labor were biased to the Libs as well? I think not.

Leichhardt Oval :

$8m from John Howard, unconditional (he also lobbied for the NSW State Labor grants), $3m in response from Maxine McHugh. 

http://www.weeklytimes.com.au/2007/11_november/07_11_07/story_02.html

http://www.weeklytimes.com.au/2007/11_november/21_11_07/sports.html

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=5563016043&topic=3529

Jono, I hear you've maybe taken some offence.  I was merely saying that you were activated by your political allegiances, and that was clear from how you wrote what you wrote.  Quite apart from any content.  And that allegiance impacts what you see and how you interpret things.  If you can't see that or don't believe it, then that's fine. We can agree to disagree. Meantime I don't dispute or negate that you thought it was totally out of order.

State/Federal split means zip to me for funding purposes, Lib is Lib, Labor is Labor.  $6m v $1m.  But at a state level, the Libs have committed zero to Manly and $3.5m to the very rugby league organisation whose sole driving purpose in life seems to be to hate Manly and damage our brand.  And that team is not even an NRL team.  Not a good look if Libs are looking to support the mighty eagles, and have the eagles support them.  Can you understand frustration with your members' failure to provide any real concrete support in that light? The NSW Labor party have provided $6m of actual hard cash (not fluffy promises), and the NSW Libs haven't even promised one cent.  This could be rectified today if there is the will, so your 16 years stat is pretty much irrelevant. Yes?

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[quote author=Rex link=topic=186590.msg319451#msg319451 date=1299147161]
Marcus, you're suggesting that Labor opened the cheque book on ground improvements and the Libs didn't?  That there weren't bidding wars?  That John Howard didn't throw big money at the likes of Kogarah, WIN stadium, Leichardt for their couple of NRL games a year? 

I'm not suggesting that at all.  I am saying the Libs haven't opened up their chequebooks for anything Federally since 2007 and anything at State level since 1995 because they haven't been in power.

How can you know the \"treatment\" the Libs received, much less what they deserved to receive?  You weren't there and we have markedly conflicting accounts and there's understandably clear political bias in reporting of events.  What is clear though is that Labor has provided $6m and the Libs $1m and when Zorba sought support for Lib funding, the Libs were silent again.

I wasn't there.  That's why I said "the treatment which it appears they received".  You may have a different view, but it appears from what I have read that they were booed and jeered.  I don't think they deserved it and I don't think it is doing anything to further the cause.
[/quote]
Hi Marcus, can't disagree with part 1, that's quite true. With part 2, neither you nor I really know what went on. And if we listen to 20 people who were there we'll probably get 20 different stories, some of which would be polar opposites. Sometimes speaking up makes you unpopular.  That doesn't automatically make it unwise or rash.

 

[Christol74]

since we received the $6 Million from the State Government (of which he helped negotiate with Morris Iemma for back in 2009) the club has not been in conversation with the State MP’s about the issue. THIS IS 2 YEARS!!

Hang On!! The funding was secured by the football club lobbying the State Government on behalf of Warringah Council, who should have been applying for State and Federal funding long ago.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the football club to continue discussions with State MP'S once the funding was secured. In fact, it would be completely inappropriate for them to do so. The State Government gave the money to Warringah Council, not the football club and they are the ones charged with ensuring it is used in a timely manner for the purpose it was provided.

In the past twelve months, Warringah Council has undertaken a ridiculously slow Community Consultation process through Bang the Table which has involved various questionnaires, forums and community breakfasts. This is directly related to this funding for Brookvale Oval.

At what point during this process do the councillors think was the appropriate time for the football club to go over their landlords heads and talk directly to the State Government again. Apart from making an official complaint to the State MP's about Warringah Councils mismanagement of the $6mil funding I really cannot see any other reason for the football club to be discussing the funding again with State MP's. It is Warringah Councils job to ensure all reporting requirements in relation to spending the $6mil are carried out.

All does not sound right here, don't be surprised if the funding has already gone on something else or will be after the coming state election. As for the behaviour of Zorba etc at the meeting, I wasn't there but they should have been screaming blue murder long ago. That is the only way anything will ever get done unfortunately. A professional approach does not work with unprofessional politicians in Local Government. You have to make noise to put pressure onto the council to act and the next two weeks is the perfect time to make noise, LOTS OF IT!!.

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I might add that I would also like to know how much money has been paid to Bang The Table for this community consultation process and where the money is coming from. It seems a pointless exercise because the community spoke loud and clear as to what they wanted and they have so far been completely ignored.