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Tonights Game

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by fLIP, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

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    Just finished watching the game tonight. I always find its easier to make a judgment when you know the outcome.

    There is a lot of criticism on the 3 play makers tonight. Orford, Monaghan and Lyon.

    Of the 3 players I reckon Lyon had the biggest problems. He is a fantastic defender but its just starting to look ridiculous that he's getting the 5/8th role ahead of Burns. The argument that usually pops up is that Burns doesn't offer much in attack. I would say you could mount a strong argument that in the same position Lyon offers even less. Even though he has the 6 on his back he still strikes me as playing a center type role. Running, drawing and passing.

    As for Orford and Monaghan, they've both copped a bit tonight and I reckon its unjust for both of them. They both had solid games. Nothing outstanding but nothing to blow your top over. The main criticism of Orford would have been in the final 5mins of the game. He didn't get in the spot to set up the winning try, but there was some odd stuff happening in the halves at the time. One minute you had Lyon and first receiver. Then Moanghan would give it a go and Orford was almost playing a 5/8th role 2/3 across field from the play the ball. Des's decision or not, it struck me a strange. One reason I reckon you could blame the lack of cohesion in the later stages.

    Moanghan, well I couldn't fault his game really. Did what you would expect of a hooker and I can't say I noticed any crop circles on the field guys. He slipped over a few times so at worst it's time for boots with screw in studs. Probably the biggest problem with his game is that he forces his way into the halves while playing hooker far too often. Its like we had 2 halves playing either side of the ruck (Orford, Lyon) and then monaghan would stick his nose in when he smells a chance and throws the attack off because the set thats building the way both halves want it is then thrown into a mess when Monas changes the ideas.

    Poor old Neumann hey? I can only say he was responsible for 1 try. The other problem was the compressed defense. We blocked up so much that when just 1 defender made the decision to move towards a decoy the overlap was made. The speed they were running the ball you just can't slide that quick. We really needed to slide far earlier than we were but hind site is a fantastic thing.

    Lets not forget too guys. Monday night we played a broncos team with a few players missing. Lyon, Kite and Bell play origin and then everyone backs it up against Melbourne in the toughest game of football i've seen since last years grand final. Then 6 days later they have to do it again at penrith without Burns, Matai, Beaver and Rose. Ballin tears his groin and King is running on 1 leg due to a butt strain. 6 points isn't enough to drop the bundle over so chin up boys. We'll be back in 2 weeks time giving the Rabbitohs a pasting with a full line up of fresh players.

    Lets just hope that Souths can pull a rabbit (no pun intended) out of the hat and we stay 2 points clear on top of the ladder.

    Disappointing game, but not as diabolical when you take the emotion out of it.
     
  2. Duff

    Duff Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Still some easily avoided points conceeded & mistakes from guys that should know better.
    The main problem is defence without Burns.
    When he was suspended we had 30 agin us both weeks & that's where we lost tinight.
    Beaver has been defensive leader for years, Burns has taken over this year,we are lost with neither of them.
     
  3. Spuds Bodyguard

    Spuds Bodyguard Active Member

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    While it was not solely his fault Neumen was pretty lost in defence last night which probably cost us. It is a problem you quite often see when someone comes up from premiere league in that they are not used to having faith in the person inside them, that moment of hesitation of whether they should stay or keep moving out is usually enough for experienced attackers to exploit
     
  4. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    SB, Neumann had 2 men to cover - if he took one the other scored, as flip said his inside man was in too far and had no chance of sliding out there. Even lyon couldnt have stopped those tries.
     
  5. easystreet

    easystreet Member

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    I think Glenn Stewart had better grow is beard back,his form just hasnt been the same since he got rid of it.
    I think last night's games proved how much we need Travis Burns at five eighth,so if we let him go at the end of the season,it could prove to one of the "dumbest" moves in the clubs history.
     
  6. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I disagree with the point on Lyon Flip

    He shows some beautiful touches with the ball at times, and i think his game at 6 still offers more than Burns for us. His running game is equal, but he has some touches at times that show real potential and class, such as a ball last night to put a runner through a hole and that chip at the end for Robbo, and long term i see no reason why he cant develop into a top line 5/8, what it will take though is some patience on our part to get him there. It took Lockyer over a year to look fully comfortable in the role.

    Was also a lot of talk about his organising game, for mine that is 80% Orfords role at the moment.
     
  7. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    1. Our attack when close to the opposition line always seems ineffectual (not just this game). I am going to lay most of the blame at our chief organisational Messiah who instead of walking on water is treading about waist high. Honestly, SOO will never be offered to him.
    2. Cuthbo will come good but he did some poor things. Outside of dropping the ball he also went for a hero run at the try line when one pass would have seen an overlap and a possible draw.
    3. Lyon looks good to me closer to the action. He has been moved around more than a career man in the navy and to expect it to all click straight away is crazy.
    3. The Panfers were caned in the penalties and yet deserved a great victory on a gutsy display. Get over it. See point 1.
    4. Deep down I thought we would lose a close game. It happened but we have shown enough to easily be a threat for the Premiership. We have heaps of improvement where other teams don't. Which leads to....
    5. Keep the chin up boys as the glass is half full. (Gronk, start getting an all-over suntan :)
     
  8. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    Agree MB, well said.

    We lost and are still at worst equal first with the bye next week to regather.
     
  9. easystreet

    easystreet Member

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    Its not a bad sign when we can play that bad yet still only lose by 6 points,on the road.
     
  10. The Wheel

    The Wheel Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree Spud, Zorba admitted the same on 2ky yesterday. If Lyon was centre, Monas 5/8, ballin hooker then those tries probably wouldn't have been scored and Ballin would not have done his groin after getting cold on the sidelines for 60 mins.

    We will have to put up with Dunley again next week as a result - well done Des :evil:
     
  11. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    LOL, 1 of your best, it is Des' fault Ballins groin went LOL
     
  12. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

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    If he was thrown onto the field without prior notice or any time to stretch out than it could very well be des fault kiwi.
     
  13. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    With Des playing so many games and generally being regardest as 1 of the fittest, i am sure he had that part covered Flip

    Is drawing a long bow to blame Des for it imo
     
  14. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

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    I don't think its his fault kiwi. Just pointing out it is plausible.
     
  15. Nutzcraw

    Nutzcraw Active Member

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    Plausible - yes.
    Ridiculous - yes.

    Most here have touched on pretty much everything.

    Orford still isn't doing his job... Neumann wasn't at fault everytime.. we need to look at why there was an overlap most times they came down that side.. I believe it is a communication problem between Neumann and his inside man.. these things can happen when your in your 2nd game of 1st's.

    Jamie Lyon is a better choice at 6 than Burns.... give it time.
    Matai needs to be in the centres.. why was he out???

    Bell and Watmough were probably our best I thought.
     
  16. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

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    And how much time do we need to give lyon before we concede that it may not work and be up the creak without a 6?
     
  17. Nutzcraw

    Nutzcraw Active Member

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    I honestly think once Orford fires.. he will fire.

    I don't see what he has done so wrong... he hasn't played many games at 6. He is playing outside our play maker who at this stage isn't really making the plays... Jamie Lyon is a class act... I will concede that attacking wise he hasn't stood up yet.. I don't think it's far off though... you can't put a time limit on when it will happen. How long did it take lockyer???
     
  18. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

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    He's not going anything wrong Nutz.

    I can't see the sense in leaving Burns on the bench so Lyon can play 5/8th. We could have them both on for the whole game and that would be nothing but a possitive.

    You guys are starting to act like its some outrageous idea that lyon he play in center? While at the same time trying to figure out how to get Burns into lock?

    I don't understand why lyon at center and burns at 5/8th gets more criticism than burns are lock ffs.
     
  19. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Agree Flip. What is it with a centre position. Is it associated with the plague, AIDS, world poverty? Lyon is an excellent centre defensively and offensively, and that's a good thing. Burns will develop into an excellent 5/8. Having both on the park for the full 80 is an excellent result, for us..
     
  20. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    And the alternative on that point in some peoples view DSM5 is that Lyon will develop into an even better 5/8, matai will continue to develop into a very good centre, and Burns would be an excellent 14.

    The debate is really never ending, neither side can really win, the Burns 5/8 side can make very good arguments why he is the better man, the Lyon 5/8 can also make very good arguments why Lyon is the better.

    Neither side is wrong in this matter so it could be one that goes on for years
     

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