Time to lock up the kids

[Bearfax]

OK, I agree that's easy, just point to the one that is extraordinary.
Which of the 5 previously mentioned do you consider extraordinary?

Potentially. Of course you cant be sure they will be the champions they seem likely to be. But judges better than me already have several of them earmarked for the Blues, and both Trbojevic and Gutherson have played starring roles in representative fixtures. Of the three we lost, two are now international players for NZ and the third, who took a year off, already has a Blues game under his belt at 21.

Its a circle. Apart from the difficulty of identifying who is extraordinary is the fact that they want 'top dollar' at 20yo. We did in fact offer hoppa, JHW and others all good money, so it wasn't a case of not trying to secure them. BUT, if we had, who would we now not have ... Foran? Cherry? Ballin? Matai?

Missing my point. Important to read the totality of my comments to see it in context.

I am pointing out a couple of issues that are rising that will make Manly's efforts to secure top quality juniors in future more problematic. What I said was that other clubs are waking up to Manlys. Melbournes, and Sydney City's tactics of grabbing the cream of juniors and bringing them through our system. We lost Hopoate, JWH and Whare because we werent willing to make a competitive payment for those players. Not equal, but in the ball park.

If Manly wants to be competitive in five years they are going to have to ensure that they start building now because when the champion players we've got now all come to the end of their time, there will be a big drop in talent in the club possibly for several years until a stock is rebuilt. Manly dont have the store of top juniors we had five years ago when DCE and Foran were coming through. All of our lower grades are near the bottom of their respective comps. That means the number of top players coming through is very limited at the moment. There are some potentially top class first graders, possibly internationals in the group coming through...but not many. And if we lose the few that we've got we'll be struggling to stay in the 8 in a few years. They are potentially the foundation upon which we can build a future.

The reported $$ that Parra offered Hoppa ( + John and Jamil as a package ) taking in consideration his two year sabbatical, no one was going to be in the ball park. He went from a promising 18yo to SOO player and GF winner in the space of half a season. With the squad we had and his reputation and standing in the game at the time we didn't stand a chance especially as a club in Parra's position need to pay overs, they paid Sandow 500K ffs.
Whare became a Kiwi International whilst bouncing from reggies to 1sts with us and if you go back through some posts here there weren't a lot of glowing reports that demanded we keep him at regular 1st grade money, and Penrith pretty much cleared the decks and started again.
JWH was always a work in progress and is still a walking penalty and few weeks suspension, yes he is up in the top couple of props going around but back then he was down the pecking order and he knew it - kind of like Jake T is now.
As much as these young guys show promise how many times have we heard "he'll be the next Sterling etc"?
Out of our successful U20's from years ago only DCE, Foz, JWH and Buhrer are regular first graders of any note and we still have three of them.
PS - Personally would've loved to have kept them all especially Hoppa, if I had my way Beaver wouldn't have had to go to France but thems the breaks.

Just reiterating. The two issues I raised were that other teams are now grabbing the youngsters like Manly, Sydney City and Melbourne were doing instead of paying big bucks for the established champion players and secondly when DCE and Foz and others were in Manly's juniors we were top of the QLD Cup 2 years in a row. That situation does not exist now.

I'm not questioning that Manly didnt have the money for Hoppa. They did for the other two but chose not to compete. But what I am saying is if other teams manage to grab the Trbojevics and Gutherson, we dont have much else coming through and it will be harder to secure good juniors to fill the void.

 

[Alan]

And my point is that there is no ideal strategy. We did look after Hoppa, JHW, and Lussick through the lower grades, developed them, offered them competitive money like you suggest and still lost them. So that plan failed.

And again my point is, had we kept them for the money they wanted, say a total of 1.1 mil (and they are worth it) it would mean we would be without say Lyons, Foran and Matai.(who are also worth it) Back to square one.

And if we let Gift go, there is no guarantee that Trbojevic, Gutherson or anybody else won't sign for better money elsewhere. And unless you can guarantee there signatures at crunch time it is all hope and pray as a plan.

It is not a science, and there is no formulae, the only advantage I can see in developing our own players through the lower grades is the instilling of a culture and the consistency and happiness of fans.

 

[Darren]

True Alan, many clubs look after juniors to then get gazumped by a huge offer. Look at Hoppa, why would he stay when offered $800k?

 

[Daddycool]

As far as I'm concerned, the situation is plain for all to see. We've got a core group of senior players, who've served the club wonderfully well over the years. We've also got an emerging group of young players the club has put a lot of time & money into.
The transition period is happening right now. The senior players are the present, the younger players are the future. Over the next 3 years most of these senior players will be gone, either to retirement or accepting a big (and final) contract at another club.
So the club essentially has 2 options;
1. Reward these senior players for their service and loyalty by paying them what they want. That way they can finish their careers at the club and we don't have to see them play for anyone else. The consequences however will be; increasing risk of injuries and many of the promising younger players will be signed by other clubs. So that in about 3 years time, the club will virtually have to start from scratch with whatever players they can afford.
2. They concentrate on retaining the bulk of the younger players and as many of the senior players as possible. The risk is, potentially alienating some members of the senior group which could have an adverse effect on the club as a whole.
It seems to me, the club is doing #2. As much as it pains me to think of any of our terrific senior group being forced out, the reality is…. it's inevitable.

 

[silvertail]

As far as I'm concerned, the situation is plain for all to see. We've got a core group of senior players, who've served the club wonderfully well over the years. We've also got an emerging group of young players the club has put a lot of time & money into.
The transition period is happening right now. The senior players are the present, the younger players are the future. Over the next 3 years most of these senior players will be gone, either to retirement or accepting a big (and final) contract at another club.
So the club essentially has 2 options;
1. Reward these senior players for their service and loyalty by paying them what they want. That way they can finish their careers at the club and we don't have to see them play for anyone else. The consequences however will be; increasing risk of injuries and many of the promising younger players will be signed by other clubs. So that in about 3 years time, the club will virtually have to start from scratch with whatever players they can afford.
2. They concentrate on retaining the bulk of the younger players and as many of the senior players as possible. The risk is, potentially alienating some members of the senior group which could have an adverse effect on the club as a whole.
It seems to me, the club is doing #2. As much as it pains me to think of any of our terrific senior group being forced out, the reality is…. it's inevitable.

3. TPAs allow the senior players to stay, play reduced games which (a) gets the best out of their ageing bodies, and (b) slowly and continually allows us to test and blood the younger crop.

Apart from the very apt loyalty argument to allow the retention of 10 year players, what business is it of the NRLs to interfere with a clubs succession plan. Oh that's right, we just have to accept that the system is designed to make us and others fail once and a while.