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The Development of Foran

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Technical Coach, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    What has annoyed me so far this year and i know its still early days with players still on the sideline is the lack of development and progression in our attacking structures/plays on both our strong passing side(right to left) and weak side(left to right). Des loves having attacking corridors for players which is not allowing players to develop both sides of their passing game.

    In Forans instance last year he was attacking right to left all year while Glen Stewart offered his short passing skills left to right. Its got to the point where second man plays are being over-used because its a safe play----Foran has more than enough ball playing skills but needs to develop his left to right passing game as defences will stack more numbers to his strong side or prepare early knowing what he is going to do.

    We need more option stuctures and shorter passing through the middle to draw in the defence before going wide and our halves have to be strong passes either side of the ruck which in this professional age should be a no brainer. Foran also needs to drift more slowly not cramping his outside options but this will come with time allowing more composure in his plays.

    If Foran is technically developed through smart coaching he has more than enough ball playing creativity in him to progress as a half or 5/8 but i fear his development under Hasler will be limited and bad habits will form forcing him into lock earlier than is required.
     
  2. Masked Eagle

    Masked Eagle Well-Known Member

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    I'm not totally convinced on Forans ball playing ability but what I would like to see him do more of is supporting the ball carrier and for us to bring some more off loading into our game.  I think our halves have the potential to be dynamic off some second phase play and running at a slightly staggered defensive line.

    I think he can have a long term career in the halves and can see both DCE and him forging a relationship ala Cliffy and Toovs.  ie one prominant shot caller with DCE doing that role.   The more comfortable DCE becomes in first grade the better Foran will be.
     
  3. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    That's Des. He camped Hodko two wide on the RHS all last season as well. Des likes structure.

    Anyway I wouldn't class Foran as a natural ball player.
     
  4. Darren

    Darren Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see more 2nd phase ball, we do very little and can be matchwinning.
     
  5. MPC75

    MPC75 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't Andrew Johns working with Foran at the moment. If that's not considered coaching and development, then I don't know what is.

    Pretty hard to judge on the structure of our plays when both our centres are sitting on the sidelines.
     
  6. jbb/james

    jbb/james Well-Known Member

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    Gotta say TC, not sure if I follow you on a lot of this. Let me try to dissect what you have said amongst a lot of blah blah

    This is why the confusion .Ive interpretd what you have written as this. Foran is told to play in the corridoor which is stifling him and the team  but his problem is that he drifts out of the corridoor cramping his outside men. ?

    If you think he needs to straighten up the attack a little , just say that. A little more depth in attack may just allow him to do this anyway

    You are saying these second man plays are being overused,Maybe, but as it was a stewie,s ( brett favorite) and he has been back 2 weeks i think it fair they stick with what they know at this time. Now i know farrer used it a lot as well last year but it was our best play so it would have to stay in some sorts. If its not broken............

    While defences may try to stack forans side as you say this only leaves room on the other side for Glen and the cherry to develop. Itas a team game and he is not manlys "go to" man at present

    You have fears that keiran cant pass left to right.What he cant throw a long ball or pop a pass. Sorry regardless of what position he plays, what side, and which corridoor i have no doubts he can. no doubt he is stronger on one side, but everyone is and his coaching under Andrew Johns would surely cover this.

    Footy is more structured than it was in the 70's 80's and 90's. There will never be another cliffy. The game is past that. The only reason benji marshall has made it this far, as he has sheens as a coach. Sheens employs the tactics im sure you would approve of( im only guessing from the grain of your post. Sorry if i have it wrong)

    These days halves have the best chance of show casing there skills from second phase play and when manly has a full unit they are pretty effective at that. The start of the season , suspensions , injuries have not allowd Manly to play like they will.

    Its great to have players that can win a game in an Instant, and that is being coached out of the game for a reason. Those players generally lose more than they win, but they do make goood super subs

    Look i hear ya, Des is not the most flamboyant coach. He has an idea of what he wants and he is strong willed



    [hr]Post  automatically merged: [time]1301384162[/time][hr]
    hey TC, i wrote this sunday when i originally read this but decided not to post it . But after me sprouting off in another thread i thought i should explain myself
     
  7. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    Drifting across field too fast cramping his outside backs is a normal characteristic that young halves have in the modern age due to the lack of ball playing skills being developed. Modern players short ball playing skills are falling behind due to the reliance on quick play the balls to create openings killing the need of a quality ball playing 5/8.

    Basically the modern game your hooker is now your half and your half is your modern interpretation of a 5/8----the crisp and length of delivery Ballin and modern hookers have basically now cuts out the old middle man half but this does not mean we have to keep Foran on the left all the time. Sometimes on our left to right spreads G.Stewart gets  the  ball and his lack of speed in both foot speed and ball release allows the sliding defence to catch up killing off try scoring moves with the typical winger/centre cutting back inside as the only option.

    I'm not saying Foran can't pass left to right but does he have the same array of double pumps,holding back a pass, face balls, second man plays that he has going to his strong side---you have to deveop them under pressure and he is not being allowed to develop  this option---what happens if Glen and Jamie are injured we need other alternatives.

    Playing straight is easier at a defensive line moving backwards and our go forward is lacking combined with a slow play the ball speed from our bigger forwards. Its not always a case of deeper backlines to solve the issue---deep backlines are dead in the modern game.(your standard second man play is the modern day deep option) Setting up deep backlines like the old days gives up too much of the advantage line and does not commit the defence into making a choice they just hang back and allow the play to unfold. A deep spread after a break is fine but against a defence not going backwards is a total waste these days.

    Gus Gould loves deep backlines Matty Johns thinks they are old school---i respect Gus in  his analysis of the game most times but he is wrong in this instance---when was the last time Gus won a premiership and how many times has Matty Johns been an influence at Newcastle/Melbourne to win premierships. Occasionally they work most times they  dont...
     
  8. the mauler

    the mauler Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Re: The Develoes)pment of Foran

    I believe that Forans problems this year stem from the fact that we not had a stable centre pairing any game this year (even during the game we have had to chop and change due to injuries).  Also the players who have played centre Trex, Hoppa and Oldfield don't usually play there.  Once we get back the truck, Killer and Snake get a couple more games under their belt i'm confident our attack will click.  When it does....look out!
     
  9. maxta

    maxta Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Foran is a reasonable ball player but his trump card is his running game. The prob is creating room for him by bending the line in attack & have him take on a back peddling defence. Des will keep the structure but with a load quicker & more potent attacking team Foran will have more space & time to naturally develope his all round attacking game that last year at seasons end looked predictable due to the busted troops & sluggish outside men.
     
  10. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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    Different players, different strengths, different styles.  Tommy Raudonikis wasn't a natural ball player, but he was damned effective.  Foran is closer to Raudonikis in style than to a Cliffy or a Sterling. Nature of the beast. Enjoy.
     
  11. WAMF

    WAMF Well-Known Member

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    Well put, Sir.
     
  12. Rusty

    Rusty Well-Known Member

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    As much as I applaud people for trying, it is far too early to Foran as one type of player or another. In 2 years we will be able to get a better idea of his ability, his style and his strenghts, and what I think TC is saying here is that Foran is developing and the way he is being played will shape the type of player that he will become, because practice and tactics shape decision making abilities and go-to traits.

    As such I wouldn't be adverse to Foran being given more latitude in attack, allowing him to open up a more natural style and develop a more fluid attack on both sides.

    Des is a great coach, and I have every confidence in his ability, my guess is that he is constraining Foran at the moment to one 'corridor' as you put it for a time only, and as his game develops and as partnerships perfect and other players fall into place around him (read centers, fullback and h/b) he will be given more latitude. Des is not the kind to throw caution to the wind however so everything will likely be done to degrees with a slow addition of further facets and plays into Forans game plan.
     
  13. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    I doubt we will ever see players like Cliffy or Phil Blake again. It is all by the numbers and safety first these days. That is a negative of the game but it is still a good spectacle. Des imo is one of the conservative coaches when it comes to taking risks so I won't be surprised if he sticks with these patterns.
     
  14. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Des coaches the team to play what is front of them rather than to just put on set plays. I think the try that Foran scored against the Rorters was evidence of a player using his intuition and running around.

    I think we will find our attack improves as we go, but Des is not one of those coaches who over-programmes or over-analysyes tthe attack.
     
  15. Andrew..

    Andrew.. Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    And here I was thinking Foran is playing the best I've seen him play.
    I need to get more savvy.
     
  16. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    Foran will move to lock as soon as we have matai and lyon back and Williams will goto 5/8, he won the QLD cup grand final there and now that we have hoppa as back up we dont need to keep him out wide where he can be shown up in turning and chasing.
     
  17. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    So where is Hoppa going in this magical backline reshuffle ? Will he be fullback and Snake go to hooker ?
     
  18. Central Coast Eagle

    Central Coast Eagle Active Member

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    No snake can move to prop, he's already starting packing into scrums, it won't be a big jump for him
     

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