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Simple explanation.

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by byso, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. byso

    byso Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone work out how this works?

    Penn 42% 2 mill

    Delmege 38% 4 mill
     
  2. Berkeley_Eagle

    Berkeley_Eagle Current Status: 24/7 Manly Fan 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Penn (related to Zorba)

    Delmege (?)
     
  3. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    This should see that short fat donkey out the door.  Send him into retirement.
     
  4. byso

    byso Well-Known Member

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    I think a few on this site have been sold a pup in relation to Penn.
     
  5. clontaago

    clontaago Well-Known Member

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    Delmege = Not too bright (Just like Byso)
     
  6. byso

    byso Well-Known Member

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    This is whats on the MSE Site, (if this is correct)

    Current Shareholders of Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Limited as at 1 December 2008
    Surfside (Max Delmege) 41.515%
    Penn Sport Pty Ltd 41.515%
    Manly-Warringah Rugby League Football Club Ltd 16.97%
    Manly-Warringah Rugby League Football Club Ltd 1 preference share


    Even so. Penn still paid half for the same share.
     
  7. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Byso - I am not sure what arrangements came with money paid. Sponsorship money versus buying into a partnership is very different.

    I would be careful buying into what we don't really know.

    Max saved the club and deserves great thanks for that no matter what. However his behaviour has not always been helpful to the club.  Penn has come out publicly in his support for Mayer two days after Max publicly supported him and privately knifed him. For what reasons any of these people are acting we don't really know, unless you have inside information that we are not privvy too. My view has been coloured by Monasgate but there is a lot more to this matter than that.

    I haven't seen anyone show any blind support to Penn on the matter - who is and what evidence do you have?
     
  8. Cameron

    Cameron Cambo Premium Member

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    byso good to see again showing you are clueless as ever.

    Stick to the camera mate it seems to be all you know.
     
  9. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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  10. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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  11. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    As usual you all seem to think it is appropriate to shoot byso down, when it appears he is completely right in what he has suggested.

    Penn purchased the balance of shares, after Board approval in January 2006, for an undisclosed amount. Based on what has been in the press it is obvious that he bought the same amount as Max for about half the amount of money that Max had put in. An injection was needed and it looks to me that all the parties accepted a smaller amount to obtain those funds.

    Here is what happened in 2004:
    Manly Football Club To Be Taken Over By Delmege In $3.5 Million Deal

    District club members will vote on a new privatisation deal that gives major sponsor Max Delmege a controlling stake in the Sea Eagles.

    Under the proposal, which has been approved by the Manly board, Delmege will purchase 62.5 per cent of the club for $3.5 million.

    In return, he will receive 3.5 million shares in a new company called Manly Warringah Sea Eagles Limited, with the existing football club taking another two million shares and Penn Sports buying 100,000 shares at $1 each.

    Included in the agreement, which will be put to members at an extraordinary general meeting on June 3, is that:

    * the club remains known as Manly Warringah Sea Eagles;
    * the colours be maroon and white; and
    * all home games be played at Brookvale Oval.

    Members were told in an information package mailed out this week that it was envisaged that majority control would eventually return to the football club through the issue of preference shares.

    During time, Delmege intends to sell down his shareholding to 15 per cent, with the football club aiming to raise $1 million per year through membership.

    The Sea Eagles hope to increase the number of football club members from about 500 to more than 5000 during the next five years.

    (by the way have a very good laugh at the football clubs claim that they intended to raise membership numbers as history shows they have moved to make it an insignificantly small closed shop)

    Here is the only announcement I could find on Penn taking up the shares:
    http://www.manlyseaeagles.com.au/news.asp?newsid=168
    This is also on the Pennsport website.

    From MWSE and listed by CW:
    31 October 2005
    Max Delmege (through his nominated company) completes his acquisition of shares in the Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Limited in accordance with the privatisation deal, raising his total shareholding to 3,500,000 ordinary shares.

    25 January 2006
    Penn Sport Pty Ltd acquires 3,825,000 ordinary shares in the Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Limited, taking its total shareholding to 3,925,000 ordinary shares.

    Max Delmege (through his nominated company) acquires 425,000 ordinary shares in the Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Limited, taking his total shareholding to 3,925,000 ordinary shares.


    Instead of making claims of idiocy why don't you come up with the actual figure that the Penns put in for their equal shareholding? I would love to be proved wrong by anybody!
     
  12. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    If Penn Sport paid $1 per share for 100,000 shares, how much do you think they paid for the further 3,825,000?
     
  13. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I am not sure MB whether the actual figures are on the public record. The question is a fair one - but don't think we will ever know.
     
  14. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    Mata - you are answering a question with a question.
    My guess is the Penns paid somewhere between 50 to less than 55 cents for these shares.
    But honestly, I don't know. But that is what it looks like. And this is possibly part of the source of the current disharmony.
     
  15. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    The answer is simple

    Matas mate should buy out delemege for $2 a share to get it back to even
     
  16. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    Mata - you are answering a question with a question.
    My guess is the Penns paid somewhere between 50 to less than 55 cents for these shares.
    But honestly, I don't know. But that is what it looks like. And this is possibly part of the source of the current disharmony.
    [/quote] 

    MB, I think you will find they paid $1 per share for the 3,825,000.

    As you have outlined above, there is a very clear process described. 

    If it is as you and byso are suggesting - do you really believe Delmege allowed the Penns to pay 55c a share to get exactly the same number of shares as he possessed, when they'd earlier paid $1 per share for their first $100,000? 

    Because that is the only logical conclusion to draw from the timeline above unless you accept that they contributed equally (aka $1 per share held). 

    Thus, when Penn went to the media and quoted a $2m+ figure he was discussing an amount of money contributed to the club *after* the purchase of shares (aka "prop-up money") - NOT the money put in to purchase their 42%.

    When Delmege threw out a $12m figure he was talking about all monies paid to Manly - including initital share purchase, sponsorship and prop up provisions.

    Perhaps this will give you an understanding of why Penn said what he said at the Media Conference - that shareholders need to contribute according to their equity and why Delmege's non-payment was an issue.

    savvy?
     
  17. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there is another logical explanation - if the MWSE website is to be believed. 

    When the Penn's bought in the Board of the time assessed the shares at a lower value than when Delmege bought in.

    Thus Delmege himself appears to be the one that conspired to deliver the shares at a lower price, so there's no use crying over spilt milk now, is there?

    If Delmege wants to kick someone's arse, he should kick his own.
     
  18. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

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    According to your scenario, Matas, you are suggesting that Delmege has contributed significantly more to the club than the Penns, even when all sponsorship is excluded.  Yes? 

    Do the best and most loyal supporters contribute more to the club than the value of financial benefits they might receive? Or not?  Like most people I don't know the full details here, but the personal slurs on Delmege (in the absence of full details) are, well, surprising to say the least.  But it is very funny seeing you side with Zorba, Matas.  :)
     
  19. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    That could be true. But why is it that Max has spoken about total contributions but the Penns have decided not to? Their right of course.

    So Max is an idiot and deserves to kick his own arse. Really? More likely the Penns negotiated hard to buy the shares at a discount and ALL the parties accepted those terms. Read into that what you like.

    Pages of a loyal and trusty steed bounding in with sword raised is enough for me. Come up with the facts, and you claim you are close to the Penns, or let's just get on with supporting Manly and state that no-one knows the truth of the matter.

    I think we can agree we aren't happy about the public nature of the whole affair. I have to agree with Max that Penn should step down and an impartial, if that is at all possible (and possibly isn't), chairman should be appointed.

    I only stood up for byso as what he said made sense to me. It could of course be wrong but no evidence has been put forward to suggest he is.
     
  20. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I'd vote for Byso.  Sean Penn should stick to acting.  Go Max!  Kick their skinny butts and their supporters on this blog along with it.  Canteen, stick to innuendo and Mata, just go scratch yourself.   
     

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