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Sick of the Injury Excuses

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Ralphie, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I want a coach that has played for Manly, has coached a team to a GF, has been able to inspire the team to perform even when the club has an unprecedented injury crisis and has been named coach of the year. If only such a man was available........oh wait.

    From 2014

    "Unlike previous Penrith teams which made a habit of falling away under a crisis, Ivan Cleary’s boys not only coped with the pressures, they rewrote the rules on how to survive an injury toll that saw up to 11 players unavailable, with amazing wins over Brisbane, Canterbury, North Queensland, New Zealand and the week one finals win over the defending premiers, the Sydney Roosters.

    Along the way, the never-say-die Panthers captured the imagination of the public, culminating in an unlikely preliminary final appearance that had Panther fans daring to dream for the first team since 2003.

    The success story masked one of the worst injury and suspension tolls in 2014. The Panthers were missing throughout the season David Simmons, Josh Mansour, Jamal Idris, Lewis Brown, Peter Wallace, Tyrone Peachey, Bryce Cartwright, Elijah Taylor, Brent Kite, James Segeyaro, Adam Docker, Jeremy Latimore and Tim Grant. Yet the team finished the regular season fourth, seeing Cleary awarded the Dally M Coach of the Year."

    http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/10/07/penrith-panthers-just-rewards-hard-season/
     
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  2. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    That coach was not available when we were shopping.
     
  3. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Not to mention he was starting to lose it and needed a break.
     
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  4. manlyfan76

    manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    How did the look anthers win without Lewis brown?
     
  5. HoldenV8

    HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

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    We currently have 9 players on the injured list:

    Daly Cherry-Evans (ankle - Rd.19 but rumoured to be this week)
    Jayden Hodges (knee - season)
    Isaac John (pectoral - Rd.16)
    Brenton Lawrence (pectoral - season)
    Jamie Lyon (hamstring - due back this week hopefully)
    Liam Knight (ankle - indefinite)
    Steve Matai (neck - season)
    Nate Myles (knee - Rd.20)
    Matt Parcell (hamstring - indefinite)

    I think indefinite is another term for to be determined.

    Add to that Snake, Tom and Matty Wright (himself an injury replacement who would be in NSW Cup otherwise) are all playing injured while Feleti Mateo is clearly out of favour and stuck in NSW Cup.

    I think the playing list injuries are somewhat similar, but there are differences between Penrith 2014 and Manly 2016. Penrith didn't have a rookie coach who was learning on the job. Cleary was in his 9th year as an NRL coach and only 3 years earlier had taken a Warriors team considered as outsiders to a Grand Final. They also had (and still have) greater depth and could cover most of their injuries far better than we currently can.

    Poor form and possibly poor coaching is one thing. But injuries like what we have would cripple most sides, especially those with questionable depth like we do.

    Does NQ have the depth to cover losing Thurston, Morgan, Scott and Talmalolo for extended periods? Can Brisbane cover if they lost Hunt, Milford, Parker, Roberts etc? Take Smith, Cronk, Munster, Bromwich and Koroibete out of the Storm and they're nothing. Cronulla lose Bird, Fifita, Gallen, Maloney, Holmes etc and they aren't on top of the ladder either.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  6. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    I think the injuries have been a huge reason why we haven't played well but it does not go the whole way to explaining our lack of resolve and puzzling selections.Trent is a rookie and it shows....can he improve with a fit roster.I have no idea but I probably tend towards the negative on that one.

    However calling Cleary a messiah is simply a stretch. As I have said a number of times the guy has had a long coaching career and lost more than he has won. I am sure he had years where his injury toll was low as well. The Warriors as usual had a great roster and Penrith had one bad year with injuries and good results but also had incredible reserves and a twenties side chock full of talent. He was also sacked for a bloke who couldn't get Brisbane to win.

    I for one would be wary of spending plenty on a bloke with a less than 50% record over a decade simply because he wore a Manly jersey for a couple of years.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  7. hozza

    hozza Well-Known Member

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    Never understood the praise Cleary has received. If or when Trent gets the arse I hope he is not the replacement.
     
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  8. double hoops

    double hoops Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I have to ask @hozza but if Trent gets sacked tomorrow who do want taking the reins.
     
  9. HoldenV8

    HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

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    Ivan Cleary hasn't actually been at Manly since 1993. That's 23 years away from the club during which time he has been at Norths, Easts, the Warriors and Penrith. He's coached 252 NRL games since 2006 and has a 121-128-3 record for a success rate of 48%.

    He does have a 100% winning record (1/1 in 2015) with the PM's XIII, though lets face it that's a fairly easy gig compared to the NRL.

    Winning percentage wise, that only just shades Cartwright who had an 86-100-0 record as a head coach (46%). And its arguable that at both the Warriors and Penrith Cleary had better squads than Cartwright did at the Gold Coast.
     
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  10. hozza

    hozza Well-Known Member

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    Honestly have no real idea. I just know the people I don't want here. We( Manly and fans) are in a very tough predicament, if we sack Trent who do we get? If we keep him, will it get worse? In between a rock and a hard place..
     
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  11. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    People forget Carty went pretty good at the Titans with an average roster in the early days but that slowly wained like the rest of the club as that grub Searle destroyed a good club. I was a season ticket holder and regularly saw crowds of 20k until Searle disenfranchised the whole community.

    As Holdens stats say his record is as good or close to plenty of others who seem Teflon coated like Cleary and Stuart. One thing I do know it is a tough gig and finding a good one is a needle in the haystack job.
     
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  12. HoldenV8

    HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

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    I really can't see Barrett being sacked, at least not before the season is over. But if he was (for argument sake, tomorrow) they would probably have Cartwright as a caretaker coach until they find a replacement who would take over in 2017. And even then Cartwright might get the job depending on how he went as caretaker.

    The reality is that there aren't too many good, experienced coaches looking for a job right now. There is Cleary, and Tooves of course, but I can't see either being on the clubs radar.

    Does anyone else get the feeling that there are plans in place to try and bring Des back should he and the Dogs part company?
     
  13. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I hope so.
     
  14. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I don't completely disagree with you, but his record leaves Barrett's for dead and it also leaves for dead the record of all other potential candidates.
     
  15. maxta

    maxta Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Realistically the injuries are a fact, not an excuse...but I do take the point of over using this at every turn.
    As pointed out correctly by HV8 above - any team missing key players & an injury toll of 10 plus players will struggle...
    The thing I don't like is the attitude of the players who do take the field shown up clearly with poor, soft defence....
    In attack also, this Manly team is almost boring to watch - 1 out punches up the middle with zero support - then a rushed kick & hope on tackle 6 - if the ball is not dropped.
    Not sure whats happening behind the scenes, but regardless of the injuries - there has been good enough Manly teams fielded to compete far better than they have.
    Maybe it needs to start in the presser after each game, because that's where all you here is a rewind of the previous week, about how hard the boys are working & being proud &....the injuries.

    How about "We are far from full strength, but the blokes out there should have done a far better job, look more enthusiastic & show more pride in the Manly jersey - we need to be more inventive in attack with some actual support play & options & show some mongrel in defence"
     
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  16. Budgewoi Eagle

    Budgewoi Eagle In for the long haul. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I like Kevvy Walters (duck).
     
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  17. Fibro Eagle

    Fibro Eagle Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Bring back David Heath a disciplinary type of coach that knows our junior base
    He would have been a better choice for a rookie coach
    Oh wait they got rid of him for some unknown reason maybe he got too good of results
     
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  18. Jerry1

    Jerry1 Well-Known Member

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    We didn't go shopping..we went to the two dollar shop a bought some cheap rubbish.
     
  19. COMMANDER

    COMMANDER IF YOU DO NOT TRY YOU CAN NOT FAIL 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    We should bring up all of the guns playing in our successful NSW Cup and Holden Cup teams.
     
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  20. Snake

    Snake Doing The Eagle Rock!

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    Ivan Cleary played 15 games for Manly so he hardly Manly through and through. He started turning it up at Penrith and Gus gave him the arse. Gus wouldn't give him the arse for no reason.
     

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