Riddell to sign with Tigers and the inconsistency of NRL.

[Ralphie]

[quote author=DSM5 link=topic=186097.msg308944#msg308944 date=1291780896]
Can't agree with your assessment of the Penns and Crowes finances Barry.  If the salary cap disappeared we'd be like on the bottom rung of the league.  No cap means that four or five teams dominate, year after year, just like the English Premier League.  My view is that the NRL set a points system in place valuing each player (done by a committee), and a team can have players who add up to a total.  That's it.  Increase the cap if needed, but don't abandon it.     

The points system I am not a fan of, for a few reasons.

For one, how would you sign guys to long term deals if points will change from year to year, and some need to be forced out because of it

Another reason is say for a player like Foran who I will use as an example. 18 months ago, he hadn't played 1st grade so would have been on say 1 point. 12 months later he is an International and say they make that a 7-8 point minimum, that is a massive jump and forces big changes onto a squad
[/quote]

How is that any different to what happens today, when players get contract upgrades because of Rep achievements.

 

[DSM5]

Kiwi, That's the reality of what happens now under the cap.  When a player improves he's paid more and thus squeezes the cap.  Under a points system, all teams would have say 25000 points to get their twenty five players under.  All players would be adjusted each year by a committee of the Commission, that's the difference.  Take the manipulation from the clubs, and put it in the hands of a non-aligned body.  Second tier players would be covered by a second tier points system.  Improving players would squeeze other, not so talented players maybe to the second tier.  Anythings better than the manipulation and rorts that occur today. 

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

[quote author=Kiwi Eagle link=topic=186097.msg308952#msg308952 date=1291791758]
[quote author=DSM5 link=topic=186097.msg308944#msg308944 date=1291780896]
Can't agree with your assessment of the Penns and Crowes finances Barry.  If the salary cap disappeared we'd be like on the bottom rung of the league.  No cap means that four or five teams dominate, year after year, just like the English Premier League.  My view is that the NRL set a points system in place valuing each player (done by a committee), and a team can have players who add up to a total.  That's it.  Increase the cap if needed, but don't abandon it.     

The points system I am not a fan of, for a few reasons.

For one, how would you sign guys to long term deals if points will change from year to year, and some need to be forced out because of it

Another reason is say for a player like Foran who I will use as an example. 18 months ago, he hadn't played 1st grade so would have been on say 1 point. 12 months later he is an International and say they make that a 7-8 point minimum, that is a massive jump and forces big changes onto a squad
[/quote]

How is that any different to what happens today, when players get contract upgrades because of Rep achievements.
[/quote]

Is a lot different, as you can work contract upgrades into a gradual system to keep a bit of stability in your club

With the points system, it is cut and dried that a player with rapid improvement in his game such as Foran would have forced another big name out of the club, we most certainly wouldn't have been signing all of Lyon, Watmough, Foran, Matai and G Stewart this year if based on a points cap

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Kiwi, That's the reality of what happens now under the cap.  When a player improves he's paid more and thus squeezes the cap.  Under a points system, all teams would have say 25000 points to get their twenty five players under.  All players would be adjusted each year by a committee of the Commission, that's the difference.  Take the manipulation from the clubs, and put it in the hands of a non-aligned body.  Second tier players would be covered by a second tier points system.  Improving players would squeeze other, not so talented players maybe to the second tier.  Anythings better than the manipulation and rorts that occur today. 

Can't agree with it mate.

Now the cap does get squeezed, but it can be manipulated with paying a bigger amount in year 2 or 3 rather than year 1, and you can plan a core squad for a few years.

Under a points system, no squad would be able to be sorted until October at the earliest

 

[eagles2win]

I've often wondered this if say a player is happy at club and decides to stay at the club for the same amount that he's getting paid at the moment(or less). How can the NRL dictate that the player must get paid X amount?

 

[DSM5]

With a points cap system the club can pay whatever amount it likes, but it just can't go the cap or over what the NRL value the players in the team as a whole.  Ant80, who is this mythical player?     

 

[ayjay007]

[quote author=Barry Hyland link=topic=186097.msg308922#msg308922 date=1291769080]
[quote author=Mark from Brisbane link=topic=186097.msg308919#msg308919 date=1291767793]
I must say the waters are getting more muddy every day, and not just because of the extra rain!!

It has become an off-field distraction that is starting to sway my opinion about having a cap. If the league could introduce another couple of teams into Brisbane to even out their influence over corporate backing etc then perhaps we just say: let the clubs go their hardest. The weak will fail. Currently the cap is really just propping up the weak anyway.
Not sure, it's a debate that should be had.
[/quote]

I fear that we are one of the financially weak being protected.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, as imperfect as the cap is, if we get rid of it, Brisbane will have the Qld SOO Team / Australian Test team and Souths will have the rest. I don't fancy watching that GF every year.
[/quote]

Thats the point,though.People wouldn't watch the same teams running around year after year.They would very soon move on.There is AFL,A-league soccer,union,HORSE RACING,etc etc....!The NRL knows this,thats why we have things like the salary cap.The NRLs fear is a couple of dominant teams,leaving the others out.This opens the way for people to go to sports that aren't bought out by a few rich people trying to rule the roost!

 

[clontaago]

If a player is signed to a 3 year deal, I think his points dont change until his contract is up. His rating is then calculated at June 1 that year, averaged over the contract period. 

The clubs can pay players whatever amount they want, however their is a points cap that they must stick to.

(I havent really thought this through and am sure they may be faults with it)

 

[DSM5]

With a points system why couldn't the points rise and fall over a contract period?  I don't see a problem with that.  Just speculative anyway, the NRL will continue on its soft option pathway.

 

[MadMarcus]

I would imagine The Penn family are more wealthy than Russell Crowe. They may not have his passion to invest in a football team, but I think they'd have the resources.

I'm wouldn't know who has the most coin between the Penns and Crowe, but I think it's Crowe's passion that is the key.  Investing in an NRL team doesn't make a whole lot of sense as an investment.  I wouldn't expect the Penns to just keep pumping more and more cash into the club with no expectation of any return.

 

[Matabele]

I would imagine The Penn family are more wealthy than Russell Crowe. They may not have his passion to invest in a football team, but I think they'd have the resources.

  They are philanthropists, but generally to far more worthy causes than a football club.

 

[Masked Eagle]

Well we had young hoppa earning plenty and that wasn't included in our top 25 either.  Elements of the cap stink but IMO its good CEOs that work out the loopholes and its not necessarily cheating.

 

[Captain of the Gate]

I just had a giggle that the Google Ads at the side of the forum must have latched onto the name Riddell, cause it came up with Riddell Helmets get official NFL team helmets lol

 

[eagles2win]

With a points cap system the club can pay whatever amount it likes, but it just can't go the cap or over what the NRL value the players in the team as a whole.  Ant80, who is this mythical player?     

Can't think of anyone at the moment

 

[Guest]

I must say the waters are getting more muddy every day, and not just because of the extra rain!!

"bloody oath!!" Mark  i agree  wtf is going on.. they better be shedding players after next season..

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reckon a few people would have been a bit sus when we signed Lyon on top of ox, beaver, kite, etc... On another note I sat next to Riddell at the 08 Gf he was wearing a Manly shirt, he was there with Glenn Hall's brother cheering on the mighty sea eagles.

<<<<<<<

i didnt find that sus at all  , i just took it as good negotiating skills by mayer & co...
i also dont think beaver was on as much as you might think, steve just liked manly he would probably be the 1st one to take a pay cut to help get lyon , his got manly blood through & through , would have done anything for the team & club..





[/quote]

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Post  automatically merged: [time]1291881605[/time]

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Can't agree with your assessment of the Penns and Crowes finances Barry.  If the salary cap disappeared we'd be like on the bottom rung of the league.  No cap means that four or five teams dominate, year after year, just like the English Premier League.  My view is that the NRL set a points system in place valuing each player (done by a committee), and a team can have players who add up to a total.  That's it.  Increase the cap if needed, but don't abandon it.     

thats right DSM & if any of those lowly clubs do actually start getting some decent players coming through they will most likely all be poached anyway, by the richer clubs..

 

[DSM5]

Just like we did, PRE-cap days.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

  They are philanthropists, but generally to far more worthy causes than a football club.

Stamp collectors?

 

[ManlyBacker]

[quote author=DSM5 link=topic=186097.msg308969#msg308969 date=1291807171]
With a points cap system the club can pay whatever amount it likes, but it just can't go the cap or over what the NRL value the players in the team as a whole.  Ant80, who is this mythical player?      

Can't think of anyone at the moment
[/quote]

Beaver is one. He was offered a lot over the Manly offer to go to Parra but stayed.

 

[eagles2win]

[quote author=Ant80 link=topic=186097.msg309056#msg309056 date=1291880768]
[quote author=DSM5 link=topic=186097.msg308969#msg308969 date=1291807171]
With a points cap system the club can pay whatever amount it likes, but it just can't go the cap or over what the NRL value the players in the team as a whole.  Ant80, who is this mythical player?     

Can't think of anyone at the moment
[/quote]

Beaver is one. He was offered a lot over the Manly offer to go to Parra but stayed.
[/quote]

I think Gus tried to get him to the Roosters as well

 

[shawn.b]

[quote author=Matabele link=topic=186097.msg309002#msg309002 date=1291850155]
  They are philanthropists, but generally to far more worthy causes than a football club.

Stamp collectors?
[/quote]

Philatilelist

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

[quote author=SeaEagleRock8 link=topic=186097.msg309064#msg309064 date=1291886403]
[quote author=Matabele link=topic=186097.msg309002#msg309002 date=1291850155]
  They are philanthropists, but generally to far more worthy causes than a football club.

Stamp collectors?
[/quote]

Philatilelist
[/quote]
Oh thanks. I suppose that's better than philanderer.