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Please sign the petition

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by tookey, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. tookey

    tookey Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    https://www.change.org/petitions/the-premier-of-nsw-the-hon-barry-o-farrell-mp-reform-sentencing-laws-to-curb-alcohol-fuelled-violence
     
  2. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Great idea. Increase penalties to stamp out crime. How come no-one ever thought of this before?
     
  3. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    What happened to your post MB? I agree with your sentiments, I just forgot to use the sarcasm emoticon in my first post :S

    There are plenty of laws already about violence. The DPP already has power to appeal sentences they think are inadequate. The DPP has appealed the Kieren Loveridge sentence.
     
  4. tookey

    tookey Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Daniel Christie has just died today so no punishment will be sufficient for the bloke who did it.
     
  5. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Devastating news.

    However, as you are advocating a political action in response to this serious issue, allow me respond.

    Alcohol or drugs are only means by which inhibitions are reduced so our beliefs and attitudes are less likely to be repressed. Even the actual punch is only the physical manifestation of those beliefs and attitudes.

    Demonising alcohol and drugs, or even the coward himself, does not address the real issue - which is the underlying beliefs and where they come from.

    For those who still struggle to understand how someone can feel the need to express his manliness or power by acting with such utter contempt for a random stranger, I suggest these attitudes stem directly from our social and economic system which rests on the right of the powerful to use their advantages to prosper directly at the expense of others. The more ruthlessly they take their advantage the more successful they will be at attracting greater power and wealth. The start point is that we don't all bargain on a level playing field.

    When calling for change, we can advocate for increased State policing, which leads to erosion of civil liberties, and which ultimately is the road to fascism. Or we can demand real equality, where respect for the value of each person is reflected in basic entitlements. For example, the right of every person to a real job on award wages. That is ultimately the path to a real democracy, instead of the token shell of one we currently enjoy.

    Of course the forces of capitalism will fight the second choice tooth and nail. They will utilise all the propaganda means (and ultimately all the military might) at their disposal to preserve the right of the powerful few to exploit the rest of the world. We live in a paradise for economic bullies.

    Calling for a 'law and order' solution to social issues like these merely obscures the real forces at play.

    Moreover, treating the symptom instead of the disease will generally fail to achieve the desired result. A cursory glance at criminological research worldwide will tell you that increased penalties have little to no effect on crime rates.

    The despicable coward who killed that young man has no sympathy from me. However, for the above reasons I am opposed to the petition.
     
  6. RiverEagle

    RiverEagle New Member

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    That's the sort of intellectual apathy and middle-class rhetoric and complacency that sees political debate and parliaments hamstrung @SeaEagleRock8

    In a perfect world, even simply a better world, the education and socialisation of young men in particular would be far more healthy, respectful and inclusive (of people's rights and responsibilities).

    That's not reality and too many families, and young men are irrevocably worse off (or no longer here) as a result.

    I agree actually that we shouldn't blanket all alcohol and / or drug fuelled behaviour as mitigation in itself. There's always the discretionary role of a judge in sentencing anyway.

    I just feel far tougher sentencing for street-violence in particular should be introduced AND executed now.

    I have no doubt it would deter some young men, particularly recidivist and repeat offenders with knowledge of the current system, from going out with the same aggressive and uncontrolled attitudes.

    It won't prevent all assaults; and of course education and assimilation from as early as possible is the starting point.

    Plenty unfortunately will still get to young adulthood with hate and frustration as their foremost disposition.

    If harsher penalties exist and give them a shot at turning things around (or keeping all out of harm's way for longer if necessary) then so be it.

    Most importantly if that saves lives, even just one young man's life ( and his family from being traumatized for the rest of their lives), surely that's a step in a better direction.

    CODA: I realize this thread originated months ago.
    It's still sadly an issue and relevant now.
     
  7. manlyfan76

    manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    15 ppl per week die from alcohol related events. It costs over A billion dollars in sick days and low productivity in the workplace. The majority of offenders have some degree if alcohol in their system.
    Drink drivers.
    Hospitals spend most nights and weekends dealing with alcohol fuelled people who are either sick or injured.

    Yet nobody questions how much alcohol we consume as a nation.
     
  8. RiverEagle

    RiverEagle New Member

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    I agree with you @manlyfan76

    The use (or misuse) of alcohol (and drugs) is seriously and chronically out-of-control.

    I'm just saying don't blame the grog (or drugs) for the unacceptable behaviour.

    Look at the offence first and any mitigating factors second; and have tougher sentences overall.

    What to do about alcohol-abuse is worthy of it's own thread really!
     
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  9. manlyfan76

    manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Maybe better quality sentences are needed where offenders are educated and reformed so as to reduce the high return rate prisons have. The trouble with that is most people are too deeply attached to the idea of prison being reveng. But in theory if people come out of the system and never reoffend then that is the victory. I can't see us changing focus in my life time.
     

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