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Penalty kicks for the line. A recurring nightmare.

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by DSM5, Oct 15, 2007.

  1. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I've been watching the union this weekend. Good to see the Ossies go down the drain. Anyway, the line penalty kicks almost always made at least thirty metres. Why is it so difficult for our guys (read Ox) to kick more than ten metres. It would seem easy to get a punt kick coach to check which players had some ability, and then coach punting technique. Maybe to kick long, long legs are required. This would knock out the Ox, and maybe that would be a good thing. Is it because he's the captain he gets to choose who kicks for the line? If the game is one of centimetres as many suggest, then it beats me why penalty kicks from Ox only go ten metres or so when with a decent kicker we could pick up another twenty metres or so. I raised this point with our esteemed coaching staff (DDes included) and they simply didn't appear interested. :bdh:
     
  2. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I agree with that point DSM, was frustrating at times during the year

    Just for a bit of info, the rugby ball and league ball have a slightly different shape, and the rugby ones fly through the air better, that is why they make extra metres all the time
     
  3. SilentBob

    SilentBob Well-Known Member

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    Got to agree, it is puzzling.

    Same could be said with kick offs and goalkicking. It's sad to see kick offs looping in the air to land 15-20m out from the line and sideline coversions falling metres short. I was getting more distance in U/13's.
     
  4. Captain Dong

    Captain Dong Member

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    As Kiwi said, it is MUCH easier to kick a union ball when trying to gather distance.

    But in saying that, Ox has a very very weak boot. Monas should of been doing the kicking for touch and line outs this year.

    As for next year....who knows....Ballin????
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Completely different balls.

    The Union ball is flatter on the sides which provides you with more kicking surface which gives more power and greater accuracy.

    It is 100% ball design rather than ability
     
  6. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    BS Dan. Orford was still kicking shorter than most league players this year.

    As a 5/8th in both codes I've kicked a hell of a lot of leather. Yes the Union ball has a larger sweet spot but its good for an extra 5-10 metres maximum.

    Larkham was another player that was a ****e kicker. Seems the flat surfaces at sea level of the Australian grounds mean that little emphasis is put on this important facet of the game.

    I watched the Currie Cup semi-final last night and the blokes there were kicking the ball 70 metres on the fly - albeit at 1650m above sea level.

    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Orford can and SHOULD increase his kicking length average by 10-15m with a decent practise regime.

    One thing to add to the mix - it is possible he is too short to have a decent long kick. He does not get an immense amoutn of pendulum momentum on his kicks. Perhaps Brett Stewart should be doing lots of practise this oiff season too.
     
  7. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    its not just distance it is accuracy.

    Comparing a league ball to a union ball and kicking in each is Apples and oranges
     
  8. Ron E. Gibbs

    Ron E. Gibbs Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget that Orford was struggling with a leg injury on and off all year. I'm not sure he ever got it right.
     
  9. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    So with your huge knowledge of kicking both (not) do you think Orford's poor distance was acceptable and entirely a product of him having to use a League ball?
     
  10. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    not at all but comparing the two type of kicks and balls and games are completely different.

    So many different factors.

    I think you could do an easy test on this, get me an official ball of each and i will rig you up an exact test wait. Whilst we are at it we can test AFL and soccer too.

    So if anyone feels like getting sciencey, lets get one of each an go to bunnings and a fishing tackle store and we can set something up
     
  11. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Do you want to return to Ridgey place kicking the ball for the line???

    Orford's distance is good but at least he found touch most times which is the biggest issue. Can't compare Currie Cup as the altitude is much more conducive to distance at altitude.
     
  12. Fro

    Fro Well-Known Member

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    I want to see Dans test results, and no I am not being sarcastic for a change, I think it would be interesting to see.
     
  13. SilentBob

    SilentBob Well-Known Member

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    The size and shape of balls aside, Orford still has the one of the shortest long kicking games in the NRL, his short midget legs just aren't made for it.
     
  14. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    I have a collection of the balls Dan is after. What do you want me to do?
     
  15. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Kicking is not as mudh to do with leg size than leg sppeed. Lockyer is not giant but has a very long kicking game. Orford's drop kicks are more of a worry to me than his line kicking. Some good points made here though.


    For a valid test you would need to have about ten kicks of each ball, eliminating the best and worst and then averaging the distance. Could be a good project for a school Maths class.
     
  16. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    You couldnt rely on humans kicking though which is why the simplest way would be a weighter kicking pad on a single pivot.

    Rig up would need something like

    - Forked hook (to hold the ball, though a kicking tee would do)
    - Steel rod with weight on one end and kicking surface on the other
    - A stand to hold the weight with a single pivot point.

    The idea would be that this way, if you set a start point then the weight and speed the ball is met at is equal in every test.


    Dan
     
  17. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    Except that you adopt different styles of kick to suit the different type of ball. It's very unlikely a steel rod is going to be able to do a spiral torpedo, is it?
     
  18. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    That is irrelevant and if what you say above is true, then my point stands that it is apples and oranges.

    As a standard test you have to have controls. The controls are

    - Weight of kick
    - Style of kick
    - position of ball

    Variable that are hard to account for are
    - Wind


    Pretty much thats it.

    If you start changing the style of kick then the experiment becomes to variable and too innaccurate. Unless you used all different types of kicks for all balls and averaged the details.
     
  19. Jatz Crackers

    Jatz Crackers Moderator Staff Member

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    The Silvertail Mythbusters !
     
  20. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    further to my point above.

    The spiral is irrelevant and with enough adjustment and a fairly accurate build, you could do a spiral.

    However in the experiment there would be no need to test the kick over more than 10 meters, whacking it 80 metres gives us no more extra data than kicking it within a 10 metre are marked out every 25CM, the mark would be taken from where the ball first hits the ground not from where it ends up as bounce of the ball is irrelevant.

    This is not a hard experiment to do so anyone of you could test it if you have the time and build skills
     

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