Panthers

[effnic]

Tc I'm not buying your argument about needing players with footwork etc etc. There is nothing wrong with our roster. Lawrence, Rose, Kite, Symonds and co all have great footwork and have demonstrated it from time to time.

There are three teams above us and all of them are expert at getting a fast play the ball. Every member of their team goes to ground face down and gets the fast play the ball. They are coached to do it and are very effective. Souths are the best at it and two seasons ago they were one of the worst....why, because they have been coached to do it. If our boys are being coached to do it, it has been utterly ineffective.

Similarly with our attack. We are predictable and are using the same moves as 5 years ago.

It all points to the coach.

You belong in the kennel.

 

[Ralphie]

Tc I'm not buying your argument about needing players with footwork etc etc. There is nothing wrong with our roster. Lawrence, Rose, Kite, Symonds and co all have great footwork and have demonstrated it from time to time.

There are three teams above us and all of them are expert at getting a fast play the ball. Every member of their team goes to ground face down and gets the fast play the ball. They are coached to do it and are very effective. Souths are the best at it and two seasons ago they were one of the worst....why, because they have been coached to do it. If our boys are being coached to do it, it has been utterly ineffective.

Similarly with our attack. We are predictable and are using the same moves as 5 years ago.

It all points to the coach.

You belong in the kennel.

That's a well thought out considered response. I can't wait for your next gem. With that level of intellect I suspect you would be more at home on the Kennel.

---

Tc I'm not buying your argument about needing players with footwork etc etc. There is nothing wrong with our roster. Lawrence, Rose, Kite, Symonds and co all have great footwork and have demonstrated it from time to time.

There are three teams above us and all of them are expert at getting a fast play the ball. Every member of their team goes to ground face down and gets the fast play the ball. They are coached to do it and are very effective. Souths are the best at it and two seasons ago they were one of the worst....why, because they have been coached to do it. If our boys are being coached to do it, it has been utterly ineffective.

Similarly with our attack. We are predictable and are using the same moves as 5 years ago.

It all points to the coach.

I'm not saying Tooves or Hasler are not to blame I'm stating the attacking issues go well beyond this year and simply blaming the coach is not the be all and end all.

Players are old enough to grow and learn as players and don't always need a coach to improve their skillset or attacking structures. Do you honestly think all the plays Melb come up with are created by Bellamy.

The big 3 at Melb are always looking to improve their games and study their own plays in more intricate detail than what our halves and backs have been doing.

I believe it is 50/50 the players need to get out of their comfort zones and create more plays to improve as ballplayers and the coach has to encourage and lay the platform to allow this growth to flourish.

Tooves has been working on the flaws in our attack that Hasler has left behind but a lack of depth in the forwards an aging forward roster and not making some hard decisions are working against us at the moment.

But i do agree if i could see these issues 4 years ago why didn't the coaching staff and players at the time address it, they are paid big bucks to think ahead.

Now this is not some jump on the bandwagon as we are not performing well in attack thread people on these forums thought i was a nut for expressing these same issues years ago when we were almost leading the attack.

Many times your weakest component in the future is what appears to do well in the present. You have to look deeper and develop a more complex mindset that is capable of extrapolating forward the data into what may progressively happen.

I don't always look at what works well and admire it to the point of enjoyment i prefer to look at what is wrong with it to stay ahead of the curve.

I think we are essentially saying the same thing, the difference being you are able to see Toovey trying to fix it and I see us doing the same thing week in week out. Perhaps you are closer to it than I am.

I have been a fan of Cleary for some time now and I was always able to see his plan at the riff, even when he chopped Lewis & Jennings I could see they were undoing the mess of the previous coach. Whilst I still don't see any major shortcomings in our roster, I'm not convinced that Toovey will let go of the one or two we need to let go.

The key thing here is that Toovey isn't changing much and he should be. The fact that we are being found out so badly in attack is proof enough that we need change.

 

[The Who]

But back to the original thread - The Riff...
I think their recruitment has been scattergun, and it's far too early to see if it has worked. They axed two of the comp's best players, Jennings and Lewis, both of whom prove week after week that The 'Riff's retention was wrong.

 

[susan]

I agree totally with your analysis TC.I didn't mean Matty playing 80 was our only problem but I can tell you it is a big one and probably the most easily addressed if we can find the right player.

 

[Ralphie]

But back to the original thread - The Riff...
I think their recruitment has been scattergun, and it's far too early to see if it has worked. They axed two of the comp's best players, Jennings and Lewis, both of whom prove week after week that The 'Riff's retention was wrong.

I don't doubt their ability, but rumour is pretty strong that both players thought they were bigger than the club and were trying to be team selectors. Cleary did the right thing if that was true.

It's no coincidence that they have made good progress since they left.

 

[The Who]

But back to the original thread - The Riff...
I think their recruitment has been scattergun, and it's far too early to see if it has worked. They axed two of the comp's best players, Jennings and Lewis, both of whom prove week after week that The 'Riff's retention was wrong.

I don't doubt their ability, but rumour is pretty strong that both players thought they were bigger than the club and were trying to be team selectors. Cleary did the right thing if that was true.

It's no coincidence that they have made good progress since they left.

As I noted about the revival of The Worriers, the Riff's wins of late have also come during the SOO period when they don't lose any players. Let's judge them in one month's time when the better teams are striving for a top four spot and the comp is over this 'twilight zone' period.

 

[Moops]

It shows how fickle some "judges" can be

How bad was gus Gould coping it for his recruitment / rebuilding plan?

He was copping it mainly from The Telegraph, no one else. The Panthers fans I know felt that tough decisions had to be made and suspected it might take a while. Maybe I was talking to the minority. Talk about everything you read in the Telegraph. I thought we were all smarter than that...

 

[lsz]

I am sure you can find plenty of threads on here saying he should be punted for getting rid of Lewis

 

[Moops]

But back to the original thread - The Riff...
I think their recruitment has been scattergun, and it's far too early to see if it has worked. They axed two of the comp's best players, Jennings and Lewis, both of whom prove week after week that The 'Riff's retention was wrong.

Jennings was a cancer hat had to be cut out of the club. He seemed like a bad influence on the younger players. I may be wrong, but that is how I read it...He is playing well this year to prove a point. Let's see how he goes when things are not as rosy at he Roosters...

---

I am sure you can find plenty of threads on here saying he should be punted for getting rid of Lewis

Gus, I am sure, wouldn't have cared less what Manly fans thought. I thought you were talking about judges other than Manly fans

---

Tc I'm not buying your argument about needing players with footwork etc etc. There is nothing wrong with our roster. Lawrence, Rose, Kite, Symonds and co all have great footwork and have demonstrated it from time to time.

There are three teams above us and all of them are expert at getting a fast play the ball. Every member of their team goes to ground face down and gets the fast play the ball. They are coached to do it and are very effective. Souths are the best at it and two seasons ago they were one of the worst....why, because they have been coached to do it. If our boys are being coached to do it, it has been utterly ineffective.

Similarly with our attack. We are predictable and are using the same moves as 5 years ago.

It all points to the coach.

You belong in the kennel.

That's a well thought out considered response. I can't wait for your next gem. With that level of intellect I suspect you would be more at home on the Kennel.

---

Tc I'm not buying your argument about needing players with footwork etc etc. There is nothing wrong with our roster. Lawrence, Rose, Kite, Symonds and co all have great footwork and have demonstrated it from time to time.

There are three teams above us and all of them are expert at getting a fast play the ball. Every member of their team goes to ground face down and gets the fast play the ball. They are coached to do it and are very effective. Souths are the best at it and two seasons ago they were one of the worst....why, because they have been coached to do it. If our boys are being coached to do it, it has been utterly ineffective.

Similarly with our attack. We are predictable and are using the same moves as 5 years ago.

It all points to the coach.

I'm not saying Tooves or Hasler are not to blame I'm stating the attacking issues go well beyond this year and simply blaming the coach is not the be all and end all.

Players are old enough to grow and learn as players and don't always need a coach to improve their skillset or attacking structures. Do you honestly think all the plays Melb come up with are created by Bellamy.

The big 3 at Melb are always looking to improve their games and study their own plays in more intricate detail than what our halves and backs have been doing.

I believe it is 50/50 the players need to get out of their comfort zones and create more plays to improve as ballplayers and the coach has to encourage and lay the platform to allow this growth to flourish.

Tooves has been working on the flaws in our attack that Hasler has left behind but a lack of depth in the forwards an aging forward roster and not making some hard decisions are working against us at the moment.

But i do agree if i could see these issues 4 years ago why didn't the coaching staff and players at the time address it, they are paid big bucks to think ahead.

Now this is not some jump on the bandwagon as we are not performing well in attack thread people on these forums thought i was a nut for expressing these same issues years ago when we were almost leading the attack.

Many times your weakest component in the future is what appears to do well in the present. You have to look deeper and develop a more complex mindset that is capable of extrapolating forward the data into what may progressively happen.

I don't always look at what works well and admire it to the point of enjoyment i prefer to look at what is wrong with it to stay ahead of the curve.

I think we are essentially saying the same thing, the difference being you are able to see Toovey trying to fix it and I see us doing the same thing week in week out. Perhaps you are closer to it than I am.

I have been a fan of Cleary for some time now and I was always able to see his plan at the riff, even when he chopped Lewis & Jennings I could see they were undoing the mess of the previous coach. Whilst I still don't see any major shortcomings in our roster, I'm not convinced that Toovey will let go of the one or two we need to let go.

The key thing here is that Toovey isn't changing much and he should be. The fact that we are being found out so badly in attack is proof enough that we need change.

---

Don't you just love those responses? You may as well just admit that you have nothing. The good old 'go and support that club then' line.