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Panthers

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by susan, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    Gees they are an improved footy team.

    A few points

    Our recruitment guys would have hated letting Dean Whare go. Couldnt do much to keep him with our top line centres but Im sure they knew what a class player he would end up being.

    If anyone needs to know what a creative dummy half can do you only had to watch Seguyaro last night.Sensational.And,this may be a big call,but I think if no other options are available we should give Kevin Kingston a one year deal. As a gold coast junior I have always rated this guy and Cleary quite often keeps him on the field with Seguyaro so he sees what he can offer.

    Kingston gets over the stripe quite a bit and is an extremely good support player with good speed and is not far behind Ballin in defence.
    Its time our coaching staff admitted the obvious.In the modern game Ballin is simply not cutting it if we want to keep our top 4 status.He has no impact in attack and his support play is average at best.When we were putting 30 on sides it didn't matter,now quite frankly,if he plays 80,he is a liability as we have little to offer in attack.

    Kingston is the best seasoned player on offer and if there is no young talent around then give him a crack as Ballins sidekick while we find one.He is twice the player in attack Ballin is,is incredibly fit and has a great work ethic.
     
  2. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Canberra has signed Kingston.

    If you take Matty's tackles out and the gathering up of loose balls, then Manly would be in strife.

    The dummy half Coach just has to be given more time with the Players :idea:
     
  3. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    Ok didn't know that.

    I don't care how much cleaning up he does.I would rather win 30-18 than be in a 12 point dog fight every week at the mercy of luck and pinkies.

    40 tackles and diving on loose balls simply doesn't cut the mustard anymore at elite level and I can guarantee you his game wont change one little bit doing forward.
     
  4. wombatgc

    wombatgc Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I've been banging on about Segeyaro when he was at the Cows. I was told he had some off field problems, hence the move to the Panthers. Looks like he's sorted that, given his great form. The way the game is now, you just can't have a hooker playing 80 and making 50 odd tackles, and expect there to be any spark out of dummy half (unless you've got monster packs dominating ie Roosters, Souths). I don't think Buhrer is the answer ( I think they should be shopping Buhrer around TBH.). I do realize the cattle up front we have lost, but I'm still not convinced that would change the fact we need to double team out of dummy half.
     
  5. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Cleary is a great coach and a former Manly player. He should be our next big recruit.
     
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  6. lsz

    lsz Well-Known Member Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    It shows how fickle some "judges" can be

    How bad was gus Gould coping it for his recruitment / rebuilding plan?
     
  7. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    They never copped it from me. I had them in my top 8 and I wanted Cleary as the Ha$ler replacement.

    The riff recruited very well this year. All they need now is a good halfback and they have the makings of a very very good side.
     
  8. bennyeagle

    bennyeagle Well-Known Member

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    You tell someone else to secure the middle of the manly defensive line and watch the points flood in. We've got the best defensive hooker in the game ! I'd take that over an stacking dummy half.
     
  9. anthonyb1965

    anthonyb1965 GO Manly Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Every time I open the ST, there is a "get rid of Ballin" thread started or revisited its seems. To me, he is a great Manly Player and I wouldn't swap him for anyone. So tired of the whinging on his attacking ability!!!

    Seeing we do have to fill a seemingly attacking void, who do get rid of so Matty B can show his ware?;

    1. DCE
    2. Foz
    3. Gifty
    4. Snake
    5. Killer
    6. Choc
    7. Shoulders
     
  10. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    They bought one already, Soward.
     
  11. PONTIAN SEA EAGLE

    PONTIAN SEA EAGLE Well-Known Member

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    We're rapping a side who beat a depleted gold coast plus bird was playing injured during the game.

    No one would have posted this thread a month ago.
     
  12. bones

    bones Bones Knows Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    He said 'good'.
     
  13. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Yes they would have, they have won 5 of their last 7 and are playing damn well
     
  14. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Definitely a team on the way up.
     
  15. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    Sue isn't saying get rid of Ballin just find someone good enough to sub him for 25 - 30 minutes a game.

    Ballin has a decent attacking game in him but cannot use it if he is required to play 80 minutes. In 2008 Le Strange worked in combo with him and it worked really well. That is the balance we lack at the moment, instead we stick a young guy on the bench for 80 minutes.
     
  16. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Fluffy.Of course I don't want him punted -just let him do the hard yards and have someone else come on and take advantage late in each half.Kingston plays more time than Seguyaro.Unless you have someone in Smiths league you need both type of player in your side and we haven't got it.Seguyaro works because Kingston does the hard yards and he comes on fresh.

    Im sure the coach knows this -it is a matter of finding the right player.
     
  17. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Soward is a 5/8th, not a halfback.
     
  18. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    Even though i can see valid points about Ballin in relation to his lack of spark out of dummy half and not engaging the markers as much as he should there are more serious problems that need attention above looking at him in the "short term".

    Our forwards need to be sharper and possess more footwork at the line to get in between tacklers while still running hard and straight. Getting in-between and half through tackles will increase the chances of hitting the ground face down promoting a quick play the ball.

    More numbers around each forward run and better quality ball play in the forwards will also help reduce the chances of gang tackling that has been pointed out in other threads.

    We need to unearth players of good size running lines in the redzone like G.Rose last try to reduce the pressure on our halves to seek to finesse all the time through the outside backs.

    Foran needs to play more central off the back of a second man play either side also which gives him the option to step and run at the line and have a trailing runner off each hip and it also gives him more outside options to use. Foran at times looks more dangerous drifting and ball playing from a more central position like for example the try against the Warriors a few weeks ago.

    Running a second man play and then the option of a second "second man play" or (variation on the "second" second man play) with more options out wide due to starting the plays more central will draw in the centre and winger earlier. This will give the option of not hitting the second man but using a face ball to hit an even wider outside runner or mix it up with a kick to keep the outside backs on their heels before setting up the play.

    More hard running strength based players hitting holes on both edges with an outside in line 5-10m outside each post like we have done in the past with King and Joe. Lawrence can lurk a little wider and even if the play does not come off the strength of these type of players will draw in sufficient numbers to hopefully open up more options on the next spread.

    We need more variations with outside in plays and having wingers or sharp backrowers hitting holes off inside decoys Melb do this well and have so many intricate variations.

    Brett Stewart has to be more pro-active off the ball and always lurking not just setting himself up for the one big play in the set. Slater at times will handle or be involved in plays on both sides for 2 or 3 tackles always constantly trailing ball runners. Also Bretts running lines are too easily readable he lacks "football speed and change of direction"--- Slater before the pass is delivered can change his hole running line during the play or hide himself well and lurk up off the hip.

    More deeper thought and plan before our big plays "the science" behind our attack to create a conducive environment for the big play.
    Take for example Cooper Cronks cross field kick, Melb basically ran all their plays leading up to his kick left to right drawing in numbers and offering more space for a one on one kick chase. They shaped to go left a few times but just headed back right several times.

    Melb always has a reason for their previous plays no matter how boring or pointless they look from where they are on the field to what angles their forwards will run with the hitups. They will isolate forwards and Smith will know under certain situations when to run after targeting slow retreating forwards from the tackle like the first try on Friday.

    The redzone attack is less to do with Ballins limitations and more about our overall structures in attack. Yes Smith still engages in the redzone often but he hurts you more off go forward plays and engaging defenders between the 30m zones.

    The Stewart Brothers are more an issue at the moment with our attack than Ballin even though i agree he lacks spark but for this year we have to address other issues.

    I stated years ago when our sweeping plays looked pretty and "clinical" that they were structurally flawed and i knew they would hardly work in the future since 09. It should have been addressed during Haslers tenure but we stuck with the safe option over and over not growing our attacking arsenal with more variations and harder tougher straighter lines.
     
  19. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Tc I'm not buying your argument about needing players with footwork etc etc. There is nothing wrong with our roster. Lawrence, Rose, Kite, Symonds and co all have great footwork and have demonstrated it from time to time.

    There are three teams above us and all of them are expert at getting a fast play the ball. Every member of their team goes to ground face down and gets the fast play the ball. They are coached to do it and are very effective. Souths are the best at it and two seasons ago they were one of the worst....why, because they have been coached to do it. If our boys are being coached to do it, it has been utterly ineffective.

    Similarly with our attack. We are predictable and are using the same moves as 5 years ago.

    It all points to the coach.
     
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  20. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying Tooves or Hasler are not to blame I'm stating the attacking issues go well beyond this year and simply blaming the coach is not the be all and end all.

    Players are old enough to grow and learn as players and don't always need a coach to improve their skillset or attacking structures. Do you honestly think all the plays Melb come up with are created by Bellamy.

    The big 3 at Melb are always looking to improve their games and study their own plays in more intricate detail than what our halves and backs have been doing.

    I believe it is 50/50 the players need to get out of their comfort zones and create more plays to improve as ballplayers and the coach has to encourage and lay the platform to allow this growth to flourish.

    Tooves has been working on the flaws in our attack that Hasler has left behind but a lack of depth in the forwards an aging forward roster and not making some hard decisions are working against us at the moment.

    But i do agree if i could see these issues 4 years ago why didn't the coaching staff and players at the time address it, they are paid big bucks to think ahead.

    Now this is not some jump on the bandwagon as we are not performing well in attack thread people on these forums thought i was a nut for expressing these same issues years ago when we were almost leading the attack.

    Many times your weakest component in the future is what appears to do well in the present. You have to look deeper and develop a more complex mindset that is capable of extrapolating forward the data into what may progressively happen.

    I don't always look at what works well and admire it to the point of enjoyment i prefer to look at what is wrong with it to stay ahead of the curve.
     

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