1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Orford to win the Clive Churchill this year

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Fluffy, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

    17,768
    1,418
    Ratings:
    +3,625 / 132
    it came to me in a dream.

    It has happened in my mind and will happen in just over 9 months time

    mark my words

    PS good 10,00th?
     
  2. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    14,921
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +6,141 / 289
    Won't happen. Yeah, he gets paid more than Lockyer, but plays 1/2 as well as him.
     
  3. toovs

    toovs Member

    196
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    brett stewart  will
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    One thing for certain it won't be Jason King.
     
  5. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    14,921
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +6,141 / 289
    Manly need to cut its dead weight - and that's King / Willow.
    We have depth enough to put in impact players now. Not plodders.
    I'd be quite interested in Willow's 2008 average metres gained for a forward. I'd say somewhere close to 15....and that just doesn't cut it in this competition.

    Examples of "workers" in other teams are Allan Tongue / Dallas Johnson...and I think they add a crap load more than slow-mow-willow.
     
  6. Berkeley_Eagle

    Berkeley_Eagle Current Status: 24/7 Manly Fan 2016 Tipping Competitor

    15,995
    1,849
    Ratings:
    +2,115 / 14
    whats the odds for this happening

    $20 @ $501  :D
     
  7. Fro

    Fro Well-Known Member

    8,337
    181
    Ratings:
    +245 / 0
    Ryan your King comment is a bit silly, he was vastly improved last season.

    Totally agree as far as the cougar is concerned
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0
    Don't forget that King was comming off a very low base the previous year so it wasn't hard for him to improve last year.

    The problem with King was that he didn't step up a gear in the semi's and like a few others actually went down a gear or two in the GF.  King is on big bucks and we could use his money to buy a really good prop.  He isn't that much better than plodders like Bryant and Hall.

    Willo obviously still has the photos of Dessie
     
  9. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    14,921
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +6,141 / 289
    I kind of thought someeone would say that, and this is where I think Manly need to be ruthless, as upposed to solid.
    We say King had a good year because he rose his avergage metres from 45 odd to 65 odd (not correct, but close enough). We need to measure our STARTING prop against other starting props. A 31+ year old Steve Price makes on AVERAGE 200+ metres.

    King is a plodder.

    The only reason people are happy with his performance IMO, is that it is an improvement from his last poop year.

    Actually he made 15 metres in the GF or something didn't he in 07? I remember a game in 05, where he made 6 metres against The Sharks or something !!

    That said, you can probably have a forward that makes 10-50 metres a game if they add other attributes to the team. The problem with us is that slow-mo is ALSO in the starting lineup, meaning Kite, Watmough, G. Stewart have to lift their workrate to cover these bums.

    I'd like to see Willow in PL, King on the bench. 10 interchanges now. Kings 12 minutes per 1/2 just won't cut it !!
     
  10. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

    11,596
    843
    Ratings:
    +971 / 7
    King was sensational and one of the top props for two thirds of the season. Why he dropped off I will probably never know, but he can do it.

    Bums is incredibly harsh. I have said this for months, we will most likely be in the GF this year. I like the team we have. I can't wait for the season to start to watch a certain yoyo bounce up and down again :p
     
  11. byso

    byso Well-Known Member

    9,609
    83
    Ratings:
    +83 / 0
    King was one of our best.
     
  12. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    14,921
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +6,141 / 289
    Backer & Byso - that is where we will fail. Mediocrity being tolerated guys.

    Look at Bellamy....makes the tough decisions:-

    Webster - Premier League
    Geyer - Bench
    Scott Hill - Premier League
    Billy Slater - Premier League

    etc etc etc. It's why they are just plain ruthless.

    I'd like us in the same boat.

    We need guys that can make an impact in games. Players that aren't slow and plodding.

    You'll see that with 10 interchange now, plodders will be exposed....and for us, that's slow-mo & King.

    I'm not saying we are the only club with plodders either, but the game as a whole is evolving from The Jason King type prop. Look at George Rose.....at least he has an offload in him, and when getting tackled, can still make a few metres.

    King is one dimensional, and looks like he gets hammered every time he runs the ball up, only to get pushed back 1-2 metres.

    And Byso:-

    Stewart, Robertson, Hicks, Bell, Lyon, Orford, Kite, Monaghan, Ballin, Watmough, G Stewart, Hall, Rose, Cuthbertson all added more IMO than King.

    King may have out done Matai, Slow-Mo, and that's about it. At least Matai shows some potential if he is groomed right.
     
  13. Jatz Crackers

    Jatz Crackers Moderator Staff Member

    9,135
    1,149
    Ratings:
    +1,246 / 7
    Ryan, Kings average metrtes did not rise from 45 metres in 06 to 65 metres in 07.

    Last year Kings average metres were 112. Kites was 130 Bryant 86.

    Kings average tackle count was 21.5. Kite was 24. Bryant was 19.3

    Since we dont know yet if Perry will become what we all want him to be, what are you suggesting we do Ryan ?
     
  14. Garts

    Garts Well-Known Member

    5,482
    363
    Ratings:
    +672 / 18
    Perry is looking pretty fit from the photos I have seen, a change of clubs is probably just what he needed to get back his best form.

    As for King, he is not the best prop going around but he was pretty damn good last year.  If he can reproduce that form we would be crazy to drop him. 
     
  15. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

    17,768
    1,418
    Ratings:
    +3,625 / 132
    King was 15th in average metres for a prop,

    out of the 14 above him, 11 have played for their country and or SOO

    Ryan a big reason we got where we did was because of our two bookend laying a great foundation allowing orford and monas to work plays in the background.

    If Perry makes it to the party then Orford should have a very good starting base to make his name.
     
  16. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

    13,234
    186
    Ratings:
    +212 / 5
    Average metres are only one measure of a prop's value. Game time has a significant impact on this. King did much better last year and there were not huge problems with our prop rotation up until the Grand Final where we blown off the park, though that was not just the props. Time will tell.
     
  17. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    14,921
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +6,141 / 289
    Wow, those stats actually shocked me there. 112 metres (on average) is actually very damned good. I knew I was wrong with my figures (was actually just guessing and said as much). Jeez. What can I say?

    Maybe I'm wrong here. I'd like to argue..but 112 metres really speaks for itself. Espescially if you consider that he made around sub 20 in the GF, and only played 19-20 odd games. If he performed in the big one, he's probably be up to circa 120 !!

    All right guys. Point taken on King.

    That said, how does slow-mo hold up?

    Where did you get the stats Jatz (not to prove you wrong or anything - just to check out stuff like Willow etc)?
     
  18. kingyfan

    kingyfan Member

    640
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0
    Jason had a sensational year and was right up there with Asotasi as the best prop in 2007.

    He was aggresive and really got his spindly legs pumping.  He told me in the offseason that he can't wait to meet up with Crocker again and is going to really give it to him next time.  He thinks probably soemthing like an accidental head clash so that way he won't remember what he is doing.

    Go chcken legs in 2008.
     
  19. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

    23,047
    447
    Ratings:
    +466 / 6
    My brave prediction is that Perry will prove to be one of the buys of the year.  With the Knights he'd pull off one sensational hit-up/break a game and then blow up.

    Under Dessie I'm expecting he'll average 3+ tackle breaks per game. 

    If Perry is firing it will up the ante once again on King.

    Rose won't be anywhere near First Grade this year.
     
  20. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

    23,047
    447
    Ratings:
    +466 / 6
    I confirm that 122metres is correct.  More than double what he achieved the previous few years.

    I think you will find Willow averages 30+ tackles per game with a very good effective tackle rate.  Comparing him to Tongue and Johnson is a bit unfair, given their pay packets in relation to his.  Johnson is an Origin player and in my opinion NSW should pick Tongue. 

    Willow is a journeyman who plugs a hole for very little $.  If we're talking value for money (which allows us to purchase people like Lyon etc) then I think he's good value. 
     

Share This Page