NSW Cup 2014

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rmd said:
I think a lot of your comments here regarding Manly's approach to NSW Cup are not taking into consideration that the club really did not want to participate in NSW Cup but were threatened with the exclusion of junior teams (NYC, SG Ball and Harold Matthews) in the NSW competition if they didn't comply.

The ideal situation for Manly was its affiliation with the Sunshine Coast Sea Eagles where those that did not make First Grade from the squad played with local players and ended up winning the competition with guys like DCE, T-Rex, Lussick etc all playing in a stronger 2nd tier competition. Canberra and Melbourne also had the same line of thinking at the time but were also threatened and like Manly, complied.

So, basically Manly has a team they don't really want and hence the focus is probably less than it could be and the results reflect that, as do the comings and goings from the squad each year.

Its not just NSW Cup but all of Manly's Juniors have Never Done any Good and is the same every year. Compared to other Clubs. It Would be Nice to have All their other Grades Winning and playing Well. I think it would help with More Sponsorship coming to the Club.
 
2009 NYC Manly were Minor Premiers.:)

Then Foz came up to MRL and DCE went onto the Sunshine Coast Eagles.

I think Penna was the Coach in 2009.
 
Wasn't one of the outcomes of last years club review a commitment for more resources to the lower tier teams (NSW Cup and NYC) ??I think everyone concerned realises we were struggling on those fronts but accepted it was a lack of input that resulted in lack of results.
 
HappilyManly said:
2009 NYC Manly were Minor Premiers.:)

Then Foz came up to MRL and DCE went onto the Sunshine Coast Eagles.

I think Penna was the Coach in 2009.
Yes Penna was the Coach and they beat the Titans, Jamie Buhrer was another player in that team. They had some Good Players. It would be Great to See a lot More Success coming from the Lower Grades as its been Few and Far Between


Chip and Chase said:
Wasn't one of the outcomes of last years club review a commitment for more resources to the lower tier teams (NSW Cup and NYC) ??I think everyone concerned realises we were struggling on those fronts but accepted it was a lack of input that resulted in lack of results.
I think some of the problems are , finding Good Quality Players, having Good Key Positional Players , playing the Best Key Positional Players in their position , There some players in both U20s and NSW Cup who should Not Be There, they are Not Up to This Level. I am hearing there will be a lot of Cuts happening. Where Manly is Struggling is in the Halves in the Lower Grades. There is No Standouts Coming through. Having Good Halves will also help these Grades produce some Good Footy on the Field and will help get the ball out wide.
 
So the problem lies with recruitment and retention? The problem with finding, developing and retaining good young halves is the fact that DCE and Foz are so young themselves. It's catch twenty two. A good young No. 6 or 7 will have quite a wait to get a crack at the NRL with Cherry and Foz in their way. That's why they go to weaker teams. The opportunity is with the weaker sides.
 
I think that team also had JWH & were unlucky not to go all the way losing to Boncs in their worst performance of that season...
As for Willo, no doubt he is an absolute gentleman but seemed to lack the respect from his players in 2013.
For the talent we had on the paddock they should have been more competitive imo, seemed to lack a will to win & only a few players seemed to be giving 100% & apart from having the ability to work out the oppositions weakness & your own strengths, motivation is a good way to judge the effect a coach has on the most important people, the players on the field.
Its similar to work, do you put more effort in when you respect/like your boss, it makes a massive difference.
 
If we look at this realistically, we have had plenty of good players leave us because of the salary cap. We have had some great junior halves go for exactly that reason (Trent Hodkinson, Joey Lussick, Josh Drinkwater, Gary Riccardi) but also because they want a crack at first grade. With DCE and Foz so young, they see their opportunities elsewhere. Interestingly aside from Hodkinson, none who have left us so far have progressed (Lussick may be an exception in the future).

The salary cap was an issue with Trent Hodkinson and probably Des's belief that DCE was just as good if not better, was the main reason he let him go (proven correct - I don't think Des knew he was going to the Bulldogs at the time).

For a club to survive it has to be profitable and last year David Perry managed to return a profit for the club, which helps to secure our long term future and if he has his way, it will continue.

Basically if you work through all the salary cap rubbish, the average salary of a player is about $284,000, if they also use the tertiary education fund (roughly $30k a year) with the minimum at $80K + for a player in the top 25. I reckon the least any player in the Top 25 is on with us is $150k with all benefits added in. There maybe two on $100k.

So now we have the NSW Cup with a salary cap in 2013 of $500k (I don't know what 2014 is but it wouldn't be much more) and allowing for the fact that there will probably be at least 4 injuries at any one time in the Top 25, they have to have at least 13 contracted, maybe 17, but let's say 13 for the hell of it (this is as they posted last year when they announced the squad). That means these guys are being paid on average less than $40k a year or game payments!!! (Go get another job!)

This is why the Sunshine Coast Sea Eagles was so attractive as an option. Rather than having an additional 13 to 17 players on the payroll we had an arrangement with the Sunshine Coast as a feeder club and supplied up to 5 players (unknown earlier in the week) on game day and a couple full timers, who were fringe players. Sunshine Coast was a stand alone club and a very affordable and developmental option for us whereas NSW Cup is anything but.

The NRL needs to take it's finger out of it's butt to clubs who are potentially in financially difficult situations since the Pokie tax and say "Well, if that's the best financial avenue for your long term survival, then do it." What on earth does the NSW Cup offer the NRL other than a pathway for some clubs? Sponsorship is nil to nothing and patronage is diddly squat. They've made it 'Park football'.

What the NRL has now is unsustainable and good potential players could be lost to Rugby Union, particularly in the halves and outside backs. Sydney University alone has funding available of well over a million for player payments and Manly is less than that, but not substantially so (although they'd say it is - well yeah it probably is, maybe $500k).

I'd rather go back to our relationship with the Sunshine Coast Sea Eagles. It worked for us and it certainly provided a wonderful development opportunity for many of those now playing first grade.
 
Fairy Bower said:
We seem to get a lot of things right in this club- except the reserve grade coach position. Terrible decision by the club if they appoint Willo again. Results & feedback from the players to management should have counted against him. Perhaps they are trying to save money by not advertising the position?
Maybe – or have you considered that ambitious lower-graders who aren't getting to first grade will always be grumbling about something? If they were happy in 2nds something would be wrong.
Also, with the giant chunk taken out of our player group culture with the loss of some key senior men, that in itself might be a reason to keep Willow around a bit longer?
 
The NYC 2009 team has some good players in it:

Brad Bennett
Scott Blanch
Jamie Buhrer
Daniel Cray
James Cunningham
Blake Davey
David Drotini
Travis Drought
Cameron Dyer
Kenny Edwards
Shane Gray
John Grey
Matt Grieve
Liam Higgins
Tyrone Hopgood
Mitchell Jowett
Nick Loato
Darcy Lussick
Michael Olfield
Jamie Patterson
Mitchell Porter
Clay Priest
Illija Radan
Chris Stolk
Richard Taione
Lama Tasi
Michael Tiopira
Todd Wilson
DCE
Foran
Will Hopoate
JWH
 
mozgrame said:
So the problem lies with recruitment and retention? The problem with finding, developing and retaining good young halves is the fact that DCE and Foz are so young themselves. It's catch twenty two. A good young No. 6 or 7 will have quite a wait to get a crack at the NRL with Cherry and Foz in their way. That's why they go to weaker teams. The opportunity is with the weaker sides.

Your So Right. If you had a Son who was a Good Little Half coming through, you would be waiting to see if if Evans and Foran would be signing the next Manly Contract. Lol. If so, you would be searching for another club


maxta said:
I think that team also had JWH & were unlucky not to go all the way losing to Boncs in their worst performance of that season...
As for Willo, no doubt he is an absolute gentleman but seemed to lack the respect from his players in 2013.
For the talent we had on the paddock they should have been more competitive imo, seemed to lack a will to win & only a few players seemed to be giving 100% & apart from having the ability to work out the oppositions weakness & your own strengths, motivation is a good way to judge the effect a coach has on the most important people, the players on the field.
Its similar to work, do you put more effort in when you respect/like your boss, it makes a massive difference.
I think its time now for the NSW Cup Team to have a New Coach, Players are Not Happy and its not good for Motivation. Its nice to have someone to Inject some Energy and Fresh Ideas into the Team. One of the things I have noticed and have been told with the Lower Grade Teams, there is No Bonding there with players. This is also important, makes a Good, happy Environment and the boys are Enthusiastic to do well.
 
Why is it we are not talking about the talent getting a run in the reserve grade or what's needed to win the nsw comp? The jump from under 20 to 1st is massive. We have a reserve grade side. We need a reserve grade side. It's got some bloody good players in it that we will all be counting on being able to jump into the A grade side when opportunities through injury and suspension arise. So let's stop looking back to Sunshine Coast days. East won the reggies before beating us 4 times last year so it helps having depth.Let's stop looking for ways to save a dollar, appoint a new reggies coach so we can start getting excited about the year ahead.
 
Quite a lot of our NSW Cup matches will be directly before FG this year, so that will give them much more visibility.
 
mozgrame said:
So the problem lies with recruitment and retention? The problem with finding, developing and retaining good young halves is the fact that DCE and Foz are so young themselves. It's catch twenty two. A good young No. 6 or 7 will have quite a wait to get a crack at the NRL with Cherry and Foz in their way. That's why they go to weaker teams. The opportunity is with the weaker sides.

Point taken but..Drinkwater, Riccardi ( to name just two ) haven't kicked on ( yet ). You would think that Thompson coming from the Tiges would have more of a shot at 1st grade if he stayed where he was but maybe he'll use what he learns from Tooves, DCE and Foz as a stepping stone to somewhere else. Littlejohn from the Dogs ditto, or some players realise that they're not quite week to week NRL standard but they still have a crack
 
StuBoot said:
mozgrame said:
So the problem lies with recruitment and retention? The problem with finding, developing and retaining good young halves is the fact that DCE and Foz are so young themselves. It's catch twenty two. A good young No. 6 or 7 will have quite a wait to get a crack at the NRL with Cherry and Foz in their way. That's why they go to weaker teams. The opportunity is with the weaker sides.

Point taken but..Drinkwater, Riccardi ( to name just two ) haven't kicked on ( yet ). You would think that Thompson coming from the Tiges would have more of a shot at 1st grade if he stayed where he was but maybe he'll use what he learns from Tooves, DCE and Foz as a stepping stone to somewhere else. Littlejohn from the Dogs ditto, or some players realise that they're not quite week to week NRL standard but they still have a crack

The Tigers have some great talent coming through, they have signed their halves on good term contracts. Manly will give all these New Players a chance and If they don't Work Out, they will let them go
 
I guess that's Mania Rudolph's new nickname.. 'Thompson'. If he plays nearly as well as his predecessor, we'll all be very happy!
 
StuBoot said:
mozgrame said:
So the problem lies with recruitment and retention? The problem with finding, developing and retaining good young halves is the fact that DCE and Foz are so young themselves. It's catch twenty two. A good young No. 6 or 7 will have quite a wait to get a crack at the NRL with Cherry and Foz in their way. That's why they go to weaker teams. The opportunity is with the weaker sides.

Point taken but..Drinkwater, Riccardi ( to name just two ) haven't kicked on ( yet ). You would think that Thompson coming from the Tiges would have more of a shot at 1st grade if he stayed where he was but maybe he'll use what he learns from Tooves, DCE and Foz as a stepping stone to somewhere else. Littlejohn from the Dogs ditto, or some players realise that they're not quite week to week NRL standard but they still have a crack

You're right Manaia Rudolph aka Thompson :) would have had a shot at 1st grade this year if he stayed with the Tiges, but only as a Centre not as a 5/8.

The opportunity to provide cover in the halves for 1st grade & to learn/develop from Tooves, DCE, Foz & Johns was too good to turn down!
 
rmd said:
I guess that's Mania Rudolph's new nickname.. 'Thompson'. If he plays nearly as well as his predecessor, we'll all be very happy!
"Mania" lol. He must be crazy.
 

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