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NRL bosses want salary cap auditor Schubert held to audit for his decisions

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by mozgrame, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. mozgrame

    mozgrame Well-Known Member

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    By Josh Massoud
    The Daily Telegraph
    December 21, 20128:12AM


    Club bosses want salary cap auditor Ian Schubert to be answerable for his decisions, such as the contentious Israel Folau call that cost Parramatta dearly.

    The Daily Telegraph can reveal the NRL Council, which represents all 16 clubs, has petitioned the ARLC to make Schubert accountable to an independent auditor.

    The council has also requested that Schubert no longer run annual checks of their salary cap compliance, believing an external audit firm would be better practice.

    South Sydney director and chartered accountant Nick Hatzistergos last month drafted a letter on behalf of the council arguing for change.

    Schubert is granted ultimate discretion to make calls on salary cap issues, making him a key figure in the protracted negotiations involving code-hoppers Folau and Sonny Bill Williams.

    Parramatta could not strike an immediate deal with Folau because Scubert insisted his base contract must be worth at least $350,000. The delay gave New South Wales Waratahs enough time to compile a counter offer to Folau.

    Williams's one-year contract to join Sydney Roosters landed on Schubert's desk nearly a month ago. Although it's expected to be green-lighted on Friday, Roosters officials have lost a valuable opportunity to feature Williams in their pre-Christmas membership campaign.

    At present, the lone avenue of appeal is to Schubert's boss, interim CEO Shane Mattiske. Council chairman David Trodden said independent review should be available to ensure the process is transparent.

    "This is not about Ian Scubert personally - it's about the transparency of the current process," he said.

    "The clubs support the salary cap auditor having wide discretion, but that needs to be exercised in an environment where reasons are given and also be subject to rigorous independent review. At the moment there's only an internal review and no reasons given.

    "You only get a 'yes' or 'no'. There's firms and firms of auditors that review businesses independently.

    "I can't see how this is so different and why we can't follow the same principles."

    Trodden also said the clubs would seek answers about their annual grants beyond 2013, with no funding guaranteed to cover the $300,000 per annum salary cap rise that's set to take place under the proposed new CBA.


    Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/nrl-premiership/nrl-club-bosses-want-salary-cap-auditor-ian-schubert-held-to-audit-for-his-decisions/story-fn2mcuj6-1226541596383#ixzz2Fj0avi2z
     
  2. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    NRL club bosses want salary cap auditor Ian Schubert held to audit for his decisions

    Why is Schubert allowed to impose a contract value on a player? If a team wants to pay someone $1.00 per season and they sign that contract then where is the problem there ? Folau's value was whatever parra were willing to pay him not what Ian Schubert thinks he is worth.
     
  3. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    RE: Bosses want salary cap auditor Schubert held to audit for his decisions

    I don't agree C&C. You have a player coming from $1.5M in AFL and everyone is expected to believe he is playing for peanuts when he goes to the eels? No way. 350k is what I would have judged him to be worth (and most certainly the absolute minimum the eels would be stumping up) and all Sticky's bleatings don't wash with me. The fact that Izzy's word was worthless is more the point in this instance.

    I don't like the incompetence shown by Schubert over the years and the clubs are probably right in calling for accountability and justification for decisions. But club bosses will do anything to gain an advantage and to not have notional values placed on players doesn't stack up when having a cap. It needs to be cleaned up and the idiotic value allowed for Lockyer is a perfect example of under the table bs.
     
  4. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    RE: Bosses want salary cap auditor Schubert held to audit for his decisions


    I agree. Allowing players to make agreements with clubs to sign for peanuts is ridiculous and open to corruption in so many ways. The salary cap is meant to even out the competition's playing talent. Whilst it isn't perfect I challenge anyone to tell me how allowing Folau, for example, to sign a deal with Parramatta for peanuts is fair to other club's rosters?

    If we lose players to other codes because we want to make sure everything is above board, then so be it. Having said that, surely something could be done to speed up the process. The clubs registering contracts for amounts that seem reasonable would be a good place to start.
     
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  5. ayjay007

    ayjay007 Well-Known Member

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    The "dragqueens" and "Bobblehead" Gasnier were a prime example.
     
  6. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Where do you draw the line ?? Does Schubert refuse to register a contract because he thinks the player is worth more ?? Does he step in when he thinks a club is paying overs for a player ?? Does Schubert stop back ended deals because in his mind the player isn't getting what he is worth in the first years of the deal ? It's a free market outside of the salary cap and clubs should not be getting interference on their contract negotiations if they stay within the bounds of the cap.

    I think parra have a justified gripe.
     
  7. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    If you believe this will work you are in Disneyland. If the NRL didn't put minimum values on players then Brisbane would simply pay all their players the minimum wage and then have all other payments as a 3rd party deal. Then they would win the comp every year because no other club has access to anything like the sort of 3rd party deals they have.
     
  8. silvertail

    silvertail Well-Known Member

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    Time to move to a points system with all players assessed for points value every year.
     
  9. The Eagle

    The Eagle Well-Known Member

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    All ways of looking at this have us losing atleast 2 stars as a starting point,I want this team to retire at manly
     
  10. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Im with C&C on this one

    It isn't up to anyone to say what a player can sign for, that is an agreement between the club and player and if both parties agree to it, it should be allowed

    It is well documented that midway through his career, Parranatta came to Menzies with an offer worth about 100k more per season than what he agreed to with us. Should we have had to pay Beaver the extra coin because he was worth more than what we were paying ?
    [hr]
    Dont agree with that at all tbh

    On a points system, Cherry Evans would have gone from a 1 to an 8 in the space of 12 months, Foran would have gone up significantly as well, which would have cost us a big chunk of our squad through no fault of our own, most likely losing a Brett Stewart type of player to keep them
     
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  11. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    Back-ended deals have been going on for years and are accepted. Over the whole contract then a justified payment for a player is visible and allowed. To suggest that Thurston should be registered on the minimum NRL salary is a joke. Everyone has some semblence of what he should be earning and the same goes for Izzy and most players. Paying overs is not an issue but paying unders will always bring scrutiny and rightfully so.
     
  12. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    So everyone is assuming here that players can easily get extra payments outside of the restrictions of the salary cap. Third party deals are heavily policed. If you think it is easy to play players on the side then you are in Disneyland. If a player wants to play for less to go to club who are a better chance of winning a premiership than Schubert won't allow it ??
     
  13. beardie

    beardie New Member

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    But if, under the points system, a player remained on the same amount of points as he started on at a club (to reward clubs for player development, and club loyalty) that would alleviate that problem. So, for example, Daly Cherry-Evans would stay on minimum points towards Manly's cap, and would only be on points as an international if he left Manly. Makes sense to me.
     
  14. mozgrame

    mozgrame Well-Known Member

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    Assuming players main motivation is winning a premiership could be seen as being off with the fairies too. Players and their managers are all about the money. You will never see a full team of top line players playing for peanuts, ego's won't allow it (let alone managers). A gold ring or two on your finger after a career in the NRL will mean little if you don't have the bank roll and investments etc to see you through the years ahead. Players need to make hay while the sun shines and so they should.
    I don't believe there is one top line player around that would join a club on rookie wages in the hope of winning a premiership. Any contract between a player and team that shows a top quality player on minimum wage needs to be investigated thoroughly and judged before registration is approved.
     
  15. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    That could never happen Beardie, for example imagine if we had this points system for that Melbourne Storm side that was cheating, you would have had Slater, Cronk, Inglis and Smith all on the bare minimum and then they could just add international on top of international after that and create a super squad
     
  16. beardie

    beardie New Member

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    If Melbourne, or any club, developed the players I do not see a problem. But a club could not add internationals at base points. As soon as a player changes clubs they then go up to current points.
    In the example I stated above, Daly Cherry Evans would be on base points for Manly as long as he stays at Manly, because Manly brought him through NYC and on to NRL. If he changes clubs, he would count on international points for that club due to him representing Australia with the Kangaroos.
    Same would apply for Kieran Foran, but in his case he represented the Kiwi's.

    It's just another way of measuring players in a team, and it would reward clubs for development and loyalty of players. Under this system, a club could pay what they like as long as they stay under the points ceiling. Much more transparent and less open to cheating as there would be no argument as to what points a player is on. No need for a second (hidden) filing cabinet of second contracts, and no need for an accountact to be auditing books.
     
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  17. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I just can't see that working at all, where you have those 4 guys worth 40 points but counted as 4 on a points cap. A 50% reduction maybe could work better

    It is always open to a bit of manipulation though, a club with an open cheque book could sign up every up and coming star coming through the under 16/18 ranks with the hopes of 4/5 of them becoming stars and worth nothing on their cap. They may sound far fetched, but it has been done before, there was a year Melbourne signed up something like 11-13 of the Junior Kangaroos
     

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