Not scoring enough points early.

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If points come they come, what is a worry for me is the thought and effort players put in every time whether in defense or with the ball (or off the ball). Too many times we get to a situation where players either don't know what we are doing in that set or are not giving 100% into the play. We seem to relax or stop in some sets as was apparent tonight. Maybe it's only early in the season but if better can be done then good is not enough.
Expect the forwards to come out firing on Thursday and try to dominate early.
 
2009 and 2010 we dropped off badly in games, not to mention all the painful years during/after the NE days.

I'll take the team that finishes with a wet sail - like the 2008 and 2011 teams and so far the 2013 team - any day.

I'm not in the inner circle, so I don't know, but just maybe the failure to score early was not a designed tactic. Maybe Wolfie didn't mean to drop it? Maybe Lyon meant to tap it back rather than forward?
 
bazeagle said:
Technical Coach said:
All this talk about defence winning games is over-rated in my opinion, yes it keeps you in games for a chance to win but if you lack a good attack all that effort will go to waste. Defence is mostly about attitude with the last 30% being good defensive structures that separate the good from the great defensive outfits.

Manly for the last 5-6yrs have had a good attitude so generally we tend to keep ourselves in games most of the time, the problem is we don't score enough points against a fresh defensive line in the early exchanges to put pressure on teams for the remainder of the game.

You judge an attack on how well it's structures can break through a defence in the early exchanges.(most of the first half and especially the first 20mins) Putting on points applies more pressure on the opposition to risk more, it takes a load off your defensive efforts and also builds confidence in your attack for the remainder of the game.

Picking up the intensity against a fatiguing outfit and scoring points is not an improvement in attack but i will say the intensity, speed and overall energy was lacking today. Combine the above with a poor attack and you get "the grind" that should not have been the case, very disappointing and a loss we will look back on big time at the end of the season.

On a side note nothing of sharpness or variation is evident up the middle, watching the amount of off the ball work Slater does in trailing the ball carriers on top of actually ball playing at the line is impressive to watch. It's not entirely on Bretts shoulders to offer this option in my opinion but damn he needs to inject himself more.

Lovely outside in running line from Symonds though off a short ball well timed and this kind of running is what makes defences commit to making a defensive move, not just slide all the time forcing us wide.
Oh NO. I am gutted enough with our poor attitude, the LOSS, DCE's bad haircut and now there's a massive TC analysis/post to digest. I can't.

Tc has written a post that makes alot of sense, i really enjoy his knowledge he shares.....but there always has to be a D%#k H*&d that needs to try and big note themselves..... it happens way to often on here, i would much rather read TC opinions then read about how some ones hair cut lost us a game of footy.
 
TC what I am saying is it is next to impossible to maintain an 8 minute physical performance i.e. there are up and down times throughout a match that you need to pace for
 
swoop said:
Technical Coach said:
QldEagle01 said:
Was only goal kicking that lost the game, fullstop!

If goal kicking is the basis of winning and losing most games there are more serious issues to be dealt with creating that scenario.

Most games? Lyon had an off night he kicks at least one and I believe we would have won in golden point time. We were coming home much stronger than the tits.

BTW Didn't we score 32 points last week?

I'm not say i believe most games are determined by goal kicking i'm saying "if" people think goal kicking is the determining factor i would suggest to look beyond the simplistic and actually ask "why did we let it get to a situation where goal kicking matters"


lsz said:
TC what I am saying is it is next to impossible to maintain an 8 minute physical performance i.e. there are up and down times throughout a match that you need to pace for

Yeah i agree but what is your point in relation to last nights game or how this was/is a factor.


QldEagle01 said:
We lost the game because of missed kicks you frigging dill. Go back to netball TC ur a clown.

Damn i need to visit Redneckville more often, on second thoughts maybe not.

Simple mind for a simple dropkick you lost me at "lost"
 
Technical Coach said:
swoop said:
Technical Coach said:
QldEagle01 said:
Was only goal kicking that lost the game, fullstop!

If goal kicking is the basis of winning and losing most games there are more serious issues to be dealt with creating that scenario.

Most games? Lyon had an off night he kicks at least one and I believe we would have won in golden point time. We were coming home much stronger than the tits.

BTW Didn't we score 32 points last week?

I'm not say i believe most games are determined by goal kicking i'm saying "if" people think goal kicking is the determining factor i would suggest to look beyond the simplistic and actually ask "why did we let it get to a situation where goal kicking matters"






So it has nothing to do with the titans' defence? Both sides defence was solid and sometimes it does come down to goalkicking. How did we get into that situation? Well there's many factors but on this one it was an off day for the team.

The fact that we score 3 tries to 2 tells you that it didn't go to plan.
 
Technical Coach said:
All this talk about defence winning games is over-rated in my opinion, yes it keeps you in games for a chance to win but if you lack a good attack all that effort will go to waste. Defence is mostly about attitude with the last 30% being good defensive structures that separate the good from the great defensive outfits.

Manly for the last 5-6yrs have had a good attitude so generally we tend to keep ourselves in games most of the time, the problem is we don't score enough points against a fresh defensive line in the early exchanges to put pressure on teams for the remainder of the game.

You judge an attack on how well it's structures can break through a defence in the early exchanges.(most of the first half and especially the first 20mins) Putting on points applies more pressure on the opposition to risk more, it takes a load off your defensive efforts and also builds confidence in your attack for the remainder of the game.

Picking up the intensity against a fatiguing outfit and scoring points is not an improvement in attack but i will say the intensity, speed and overall energy was lacking today. Combine the above with a poor attack and you get "the grind" that should not have been the case, very disappointing and a loss we will look back on big time at the end of the season.

On a side note nothing of sharpness or variation is evident up the middle, watching the amount of off the ball work Slater does in trailing the ball carriers on top of actually ball playing at the line is impressive to watch. It's not entirely on Bretts shoulders to offer this option in my opinion but damn he needs to inject himself more.

Lovely outside in running line from Symonds though off a short ball well timed and this kind of running is what makes defences commit to making a defensive move, not just slide all the time forcing us wide.

They did score early in the first 2 games against the broncos and the knights. Dare I say it almost looked too easy for them. I was hoping this game would not replicate this again as i didnt want Manly to expect early gifted points and not dig deep

The gold coast had a lions share of the ball early, through a couple of penalties, some excellent kicks and defence that secured consecutive sets of 6 from drop outs. Its difficult to score points without the ball even with your playbook.

Its early in the season, the humidity was high and manly only had 35% of the ball and had completed a massive mis match of defence early. In this time Manly's completion rate was quite high so it was a result of sustained pressure from the titans rather than poor, structure, discipline

To be 2 nil down at the break deserves praise rather than criticism

while we would all like to see teams putting on moves from the kick off, and scoring at will through master plans perfected with the salt shaker and sauce bottle as units, the greatest coaches believe ball security and not losing a match early rather than winning a game early secures the best results

Just curiously TC, are you tim sheens or brian smith, some of your methods seem to reflect their ideas. Dare i say either will not be remembered for their results

I would love to see you rate our defence, its structure and show us some proof that defence doesnt win games. History may show its not as over rated as you claim
 
It's early in the season and i'm not too worried just stressing the point in a general sense for a while now we don't put enough points to reward the high intensity effort we put in to the early exchanges.

If you want to look at this year for an example and i hate to use the first games of the season(unfair to expect the team to be clinical in attack this early all the time) but the first game we dominated the first 15mins and it was only in the 27min we crossed over(on a wet ground understandable) and we had to grind out a win coming over the top in the second half.

The second game we scored two early tries and went on with it in the second half and to be honest i rated our attack better in the Bronco's game than in the Newcastle game the overall performance against the Broncos was better also.

The point is crossing the line early puts doubt in the defensive line for the rest of the game,builds confidence in the attack and allows the team to play under less pressure. Relying on coming over the top all the time will just create games that are grinding and fatiguing which will hurt us in the back end of the season.

Seriously the Titans did not offer much, just because the score was 2-0 at half time does not always suggest it was due to great defence if the attack from both sides left a lot to be desired. Manly also did not sustain enough repeat pressure in the red zone either way so lets not over hype the defensive efforts from both teams, it was good but not great.
 
Whilst it's always good to be analysing how our team performs, it can't be forgotten that there's always going to be a loser and a winner on the day.

I can't remember many better games from the Titans since their inception and we still managed to score more tries than them...yes, I'm disappointed we didn't come away with the 2 points last night but I'm extremely proud of the effort we put in.
 
Andrew.. said:
Whilst it's always good to be analysing how our team performs, it can't be forgotten that there's always going to be a loser and a winner on the day.

I can't remember many better games from the Titans since their inception and we still managed to score more tries than them...yes, I'm disappointed we didn't come away with the 2 points last night but I'm extremely proud of the effort we put in.

Well said Andrew. The 2nd try we conceded was a gift try to the Titans too, a result of Jorge's big in-goal blunder :(
 
Why does the technical coach recieve this sort of riducule especially from moderators.

They guy has an opinion and backs it up with structured points, I don't agree with everything he posts but I enjoy he's thoughts and the passion in which he constructs them.

It's better than most of the reactionary tripe that is posted after a loss.
 
Tc what i saying is.....

Clearly they train to finish stronger / pace themselves to finish strongly. This will impact on the first half performance
 
So it has nothing to do with the titans' defence? Both sides defence was solid and sometimes it does come down to goalkicking. How did we get into that situation? Well there's many factors but on this one it was an off day for the team.

The fact that we score 3 tries to 2 tells you that it didn't go to plan.
That's it in a nutshell. We were off, Titans were on, They had some hammering defense. I'm not sure the Storm would've made any more progress through the Titans' defence than we did in the first 30 considering how much possesion they had.
 
Even Toovey mentions that the effort was fine but the execution was lacking.

If you want a great example where the theory of "good defence wins you games" does not "always" hold up look no further than this game. We defended well enough and never really looked stretched even with the lack of possession in the first half ---what it did achieve was give us an opportunity to win the game and our attack let us down at key times.

I'm not saying defence does not win you games all i'm saying is it is over-exaggerated in many instances.

I would put above good defence ball security, go forward, field position, time in possession,clinical attack and good kicking+kick chase because all those listed take pressure off your defensive efforts with the flow on effect of a fresh straight high line speed defence that will make better decisions.

Like i stated earlier defence is "mainly" about attitude and for the last 5-6yrs this has not been an issue---we have good line speed good up and in structures, a good slide when outnumbered and we wrestle with the best slowing down the play the ball.

I have noticed at times tacklers sometimes not quick enough to get into marker but every team is going to suffer in this area just the nature of the game. You just do your best to limit this happening through a good wrestle and a fit squad with sharp energy to get off the tackled player and get into marker.
 
RL Gronk said:
Why does the technical coach recieve this sort of riducule especially from moderators.

They guy has an opinion and backs it up with structured points, I don't agree with everything he posts but I enjoy he's thoughts and the passion in which he constructs them.

It's better than most of the reactionary tripe that is posted after a loss.

Take your trash talk of this website elsewhere, cambo.
 
Jatz Crackers said:
RL Gronk said:
Why does the technical coach recieve this sort of riducule especially from moderators.

They guy has an opinion and backs it up with structured points, I don't agree with everything he posts but I enjoy he's thoughts and the passion in which he constructs them.

It's better than most of the reactionary tripe that is posted after a loss.

Take your trash talk of this website elsewhere, cambo.

I'm perplexed as to why this continues. I am not cambo and I'm sure the couple of posters I have met and recommended this site can vouch for me. Not that I should have too.

Back to my post I apologise if it offended I just don't understand why Technical cops a pasting from people. His level of thought is refreshing in my humble opinion.
 

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