mwse shutdown??

  • We had an issue with background services between march 10th and 15th or there about. This meant the payment services were not linking to automatic upgrades. If you paid for premium membership and are still seeing ads please let me know and the email you used against PayPal and I cam manually verify and upgrade your account.
vidmar link said:
. . .
I firmly believe that until the average supporter takes more ownership of the game through such things as membership and going to the game then we will always be at the mercy of the large media companies who can dangle the financial carrot but ultimately will call the shots as to how the game is run and when.
. . .

How does joining Screaming Eagles equate with ‘taking more ownership’? Joining is in effect making a donation. Which I should point out I have been happy to do. But it is a donation to a mostly privately owned business.

As for joining to use the forum, well I had already joined before you needed to be a Screaming Eagle to use the forum, but when they made it compulsory to join in order to continue to use the forum – that certainly was a factor in my continuing subscription. (This was also before I ever posted over here).

How does going to the game equate with ‘taking more ownership’? Do movie-goers take ownership of Hollywood film studios? I thought by attending we are just paying for entertainment.
 
vidmar link said:
. . .
Still unsure why we can get the best part of 70,000 wearing maroon and white to the GF and many more filling pubs, clubs and homes around the Penisular but not more than 4,000 willing to punt in $59 to be a member and support the club financially...?
. . .

Maybe because the $59 does not really make you a member of the Sea Eagles, at least not in any meaningful sense of ‘member’. It makes you a member of a supporters group run by the club, which is a bit different. On the other hand it certainly is a financial contribution.

Given the solution to the mystery of attracting more Screaming Eagles members still eludes you, I wonder how you are progressing with your project of expanding the football club membership?
 
SER8, looks like you and I are part of the"conga line".

I like a bit of Brazillian and Cuban music. let's all join in.
 
I love spirited debate so keep it coming?

That said there are a number of separate issues being debated concurrently here so in answer to some of the points raised and in reply to some questions directly to me here are a few points

MSWSE “shut down”
The real reason why people couldn’t post for a period this weekend was due to technical problems – not censorship.

Other areas of the site including merchandise sales, ticket and event bookings and other pages were also not working?

When the problem was notified to the club it was rectified as soon as possible.

When the forum has been closed/suspended previously the supporters have been notified why and warning messages were posted to remind people of the rules and their obligations when it was re-opened.

Re banning posters – this happened to at least 2 people that I know of…but as mentioned, as the site can’t be monitored 24/7 the real possibility and risk of material being posted that may be damaging to the club or individuals connected to it remaining un-moderated was understandably not one that the club were prepared to wear so they acted accordingly.

MWSE forum posts
MB was, as Mata said “on the money” re closing the forum down previously…CC I remember seeing posts directly “quoted”  (lifted!) from the official forum appearing in the press.

(From memory even Matabele was quoted in one article but not sure if that was a direct quote or lifted from a forum post?)

Regular readers will recall my notes of caution re discussing the Brett Stewart affair in a public forum and the incredible number of “guests” that were logged in during that time?

As to people being blinkered…you get that (We even have a “one eyed eagle" posting in this thread?)

I’m a big believer in the motto “If you carry a big sword then you need a big shield” – ie if you are going to go public and be critical of people or process then be prepared that there will be others who may disagree and will take you to task…It seems that people find that acceptable on here but not on the official site?

Memberships
The number of Screaming Eagles membership for the 2009 season has risen significantly and all credit to the club and in particular it’s membership team for their efforts.

The key point on this is that the revenue from memberships has risen nearly 50% in the current season (numbers of members is important but ultimately it’s the dollars that count?)

I’m reliably told that the Sea Eagles are 3rd in the member revenue stakes in the Sydney market and considering the limited resources available to run this side of the business (The people that work in the membership team also wear many other hats due to budgetary/staffing constraints) that is to be considered an excellent result.

Key changes to the membership packages which included a number of “user pays” initiatives (ie if you don’t need it or can’t use it then you don’t pay for it (Such as bus travel for away games)) flexi-passes (For those that can’t commit to a full home seasons games) etc.) are as a direct result of listening to the wants and needs of the supporter base.

The numbers of out of town members has also risen significantly and the social functions that were held in Brisbane and the Gold Coast were pretty much sold out with big numbers turning out to support the team at these games which is indicative of the broad support the club has and its programs to convert these people to become members has shown fruit.

There are at least around 100 people traveling to Melbourne for the game and the official allocation of game tickets have been sold and the pre-game function is a sell out (last year I travelled there with kids and saw about 9 of the “regulars” being Mouse, Shane and AJ and Sue and the girls from Mudgee and co.)

So Screaming Eagles membership continues to rise and the increased awareness of the importance of this financial revenue stream for the club is encouraging but of course it is important to maintain this growth.

I personally have no official involvement in growing these numbers (Screaming Eagles) or any real influence on what is done to promote membership.

That said, whenever possible I will do what I can to assist in gaining new members and helping dollars in the door (including of course posting on here?) and am curious why some people still find it amusing to down play the importance of assisting in raising revenue for the club that they claim to support

If anyone has any ideas, suggestions or silver bullets to contribute I’m sure the club will be happy to listen or post them here and I’ll present them?

Football Club
I’ve made no secret of the fact that I see the long term security of the club lies with having a strong membership base.

Much as I’m extremely appreciative of the financial support that the Penn and Delmege families have given (and continue to give) to the club, we have seen how this can be a double edged sword and in the times of financial uncertainty then the business of having a footy team on the field and in the top flight can’t be built on the largesse of a couple of private individuals.

At some stage I would like to see that the Football Club buys back a portion of the franchise and that the supporters via this process have more ownership and say in the direction of the club.

You may recall that I am now taking a more active role in increasing membership of the Football Club and will attend a board meeting tomorrow (not sure if I will get a free sandwich but will make full disclosure for Matabele’s benefit on Thursday).

I have presented a draft plan to the board and the feedback so far has been positive and once it has been signed off I will of course be keen to share it with you

The Football Club are the original “owners” of the team and in reality is the one membership that is answerable to its membership so that is why I used the term “ownership”

That said, to my mind there are 2 aspects involved in membership - being firstly keeping the franchise solvent and having an income stream to support the business (Screaming Eagles membership, match attendances and merchandise etc) and secondly growing the finances of the Football Club to allow it to take more ownership and reduce the reliance on hefty private equity from a limited number of benefactors

Sea Eagles “Brand”
The pre-season events and the well documented in-fighting whilst not ideal do not appear to have impacted too negatively on the brand fortunately.

I’m unaware of any sponsors pulling out or even high level talks having to be made (a la LG for the Sharks, Samsung for the Roosters etc) to salvage potential pulling of funds.

The list of current club sponsors can be seen here http://www.mwse.com.au/default.aspx?s=sponsor-directory
And it great to see so many businesses get behind the club.

That said, a strong membership base of supporters (say another 10,000 Screaming Eagles members) would add over half a million dollars a year to the income stream?)

It is a challenge and one that people far more cluey than I are constantly pondering on finding the answer to (There are all manner of research projects, marketing experts and analysts trying to figure that out for the code as a whole not just for the Sea Eagles?)

We are still a “community club” and we are one of the few that still play at a provincial ground.
The players and officials do a whole host of good things for the local community and various charitable entities so I feel some return from the community and supporters of the team is warranted if we are to have a long term future for the Sea Eagles to remain on the Northern Beaches

In answer to the quote “How does going to the game equate with ‘taking more ownership’? Do movie-goers take ownership of Hollywood film studios? I thought by attending we are just paying for entertainment.”

A reasonable analogy but let me put it this way…If the NRL said we had to move to Orange tomorrow and play our games there could only be around 10-12,000 that realistically would be able to say that they disagreed with that decision as it directly affected them?
People watching on TV wouldn’t be inconvenienced as the venue doesn’t affect them directly (I know there will be validity on home ground advantage, history etc etc) but the fact remains that you only miss the water when the well is dry.

Strong attendances dictate a venue – how many whinge about teams playing at Homebush?

The fact that the home club is given $100,000 in revenue (sponsorship) from ANZ guaranteed compared to the poor attendances and low revenue from playing at “traditional” grounds is testament to this.

It was documented by Grant Meyer that revenue from playing at Gosford exceeded revenue from playing at Brookie – if more people got to games at Brookvale then this would cease to be an issue and Gosford would not be as attractive from a financial point of view (hence me saying people taking “ownership” of the future of the club)

Ultimately, I would hope that all who post on here want what is best for the club and are keen to see its future secure.

As a group of passionate supporters there will always be differences of opinions on how that is achieved…some make valid points and back up their ideas with facts and common sense and have a willingness to get involved and support the team.

Others are mischievous and vexatious and can be ignored as they are invariably happy to criticize but offer no clue on how to improve things but rather find perverse joy in battering others for trying or getting involved in some official capacity…… (We’ve all seen posts criticizing Philip Dean, Kerry Sibraa, Peter Spray, Bob Reilly and Peter Bryant and others who all work tirelessly for the club for no personal financial gain?)

Not for one minute do I think I have all the answers…I wish I did!

I do however feel that now is the time that our team and club really needs our support and would appreciate us getting behind them to help lift them during this important part of the season.

Moving forward, the more like minded people that are willing to do their bit to support the club financially and through spreading the word, doing volunteer work, getting to a game and putting money in the coffers the better.

Happy to hear any ideas, suggestions or comments from people…?

Vidmar
 
Apples are red or green, but apple juice is brown.....think about it
 
Wow you type very fast!
Just on the footy club issues -which included expanding the membership and also making the board more transparent and accountable -I asked you previously if the board would engage in consultation with members and you said you were certainly interested in consultation.

You say you will be keen to share the plan after the board signs off. Is there going to be any process to make rank & file footy club members feel a part of all this, or any genuine consultation? Surely it is important if we are to avoid some of the ignorance/mistrust/non-transparency etc etc previously exhibited that members need to really 'belong', to be included?


(Dan - you still fixated on the refreshments??)
 
SER8 – thanks for getting back.
I fully agree in that it is fair to say (for whatever reason) that there is still confusion re the roles of the 3 entities that make up the “Sea Eagle Family” and also in some quarters a lack of trust or understanding as to the role of the Football Club.

As part of my written submission to the board I have included action points and initiatives stressing the need for supporters to get more involved and have ownership of the club.

The reference to signing off is that until my ideas have been discussed and approved it is unrealistic for me to be going public on plans that won’t or can’t be supported by the board as a whole?

That said, as you allude to, I’m very convinced that the members are the key to the success of any growth and consultation and communication are key factors in that.

We have a good group of well intentioned and passionate people on the Football Club board and who like many have busy lives and family matters to deal with as well as in most cases fairly full on business lives to juggle with as well.

I’m surprised that some keep up their commitments to the board with the crap they cop so to me that says something about their loyalty to the club (and again they do so unpaid and even having to take their own sandwiches to meetings…)

I am hopeful that my draft suggestions will be welcomed and supported and that collectively the club officials and members can work together to create something special

Stay tuned?
 
Cliffy Gc link said:
hey jethro hang on a sec mate
i hooked in to him for one reason and i have just done it again now,

for personally insulting the players.

Ill be honest at the moment i believe the following players arent playing up to the standard i expect of them as a fan
Tony williams
Wolfy
Lyon king (against souths)
Kite
Perry
Glenn Stewart

those blokes need to look in the mirror and dig deep.

But calling blokes soft, useless, little C's, the williams sisters and she rex is disgraceful and thats what i have issue with

play the ball not the man

That is a very scary post

I cannot believe you honestly think Orford is playing to a good standard.
 
(We’ve all seen posts criticizing Philip Dean, Kerry Sibraa, Peter Spray, Bob Reilly and Peter Bryant and others who all work tirelessly for the club for no personal financial gain?)

Maybe their sandwiches are toasted???????

Seriously great information Vid!!
 
Vidmar as usual you are a tireless worker for the cause.

From my point of view I am a member of both Screaming Eagles and Football Club, which I consider both as donations really as I don't derive any real tangible benefit out of either. I'm happy to contribute financially for the security of the club, and I am by no means well off, so it isn't like I have plenty of cash to splash around. Like you I don't understand the mentality of the "supporter" who isn't prepared to dig into their pocket and support the club they claim to follow. If the club was raking in millions in revenue and turning a healthy profit then I could understand the reluctance to further line the pockets of the owners, but given that this is far from the case I don't understand why people don't want to help out.

Personally I consider the Football Club membership more important than the Screaming Eagles. However I can't understand the mentality of the "competition" for members between the 2 programmes, it's petty and ridiculous. Having said that I would drop the Screaming Eagles in heartbeat and put more into the Football Club membership IF I knew that the revenue raised from Footy Club Membership was going to be used for what we have always been lead to believe was going to happen.....buying back shares in the private entity for the fans. This hasn't happened in any way, shape, or form to date as far as I know, which is frustrating. It's not that I don't feel indebted to Max and the Penns and it's not that I don't trust them, but given the carry on early in the year it really revealed some true colours. The sooner the Football Club takes a bigger interest in the "product" the better for the team and the supporters. At the moment we are being held ransom, not in an intentional vindictive way, but without the support of the benefactors we are screwed and they know it.

The only way for this club to move forward is on the back of a committed supporter base who are prepared to take a financial interest in the future of the team they support. It was a no brainer for me, as soon as the Northern Eagles died I signed up as a Manly member straight away, as I didn't want to run the risk of ever again losing the club that I had supported since I was a kid. If only we could engender the AFL mentality, where it is given that you will be member of the team you support. I just don't understand how people can't see the benefits of membership.
 
Great post C&C. I agree with your sentiments. I am not a FC member and have documented before why, and having discussed this with the board members now believe I was possibly in error and it almost a certainty that I will be one next year.

There has been a buy-back of shares on a small scale. I posted all the numbers a while back, but nothing for a few years and it is hardly enough to make a dent in the big scheme. I also agree that the FC and SE memberships should somehow be joined.
 
This is part of an email I sent to the football club chairman a few months ago suggesting the amalgamation of the membership categories;

• Whilst there are effectively 3 membership option’s for the average fan (leagues club/football club/Screaming Eagles) I feel there is great confusion among the fan base regarding  the multiple options and also I suspect it would be an administrative nightmare to maintain.  The change to the membership application this year I believe has seen the football club membership drop to somewhere below 1000 members, whilst this is a concern for the football club with its only source of income effectively removed it is of concern as well as the average dedicated Manly fan who buys a season ticket does not have a say in the future direction of the club or the team as whole. 

My suggestion is that the separate football club membership be removed and membership of the football club is obtained by purchasing a Season ticket (i.e. Screaming Eagles) as a result there would be only two memberships – leagues & season ticket (football club).  Whilst this would probably see the football club being unable to collect  membership fees there benefits could out weigh the loss of income, lets face it the current fee collection rate will not see us buy back the club anytime this century.  The benefits I believe are as follows;
o More simple membership options which could see more fans sign up to the club as a whole
o Expanding the football club’s membership base to approx 4000 in line with Screaming Eagles will ensure the ‘dedicated’ Manly fan is represented at MWSE board level
o These ticketed members will be passionate about the club colours/location etc and will protect our heritage in any vote
o Ticketed membership will prevent membership ‘stacking’ and the football club being  taken over by a group who have potentially ulterior motives (eg relocation etc)
o An expanded fan/membership base may allow the ‘football club’ to undertake different forms of income raising (apart from a yearly fee collection)
o Less expense in administering the differing membership bases



Alternatively if it is  critical that fee income is required for the football club, a nominal fee could be added to the season tickets (eg $5) to contribute to the football club, obviously with agreement from club management. Whilst this is a significant reduction from the existing annual fee the additional number of season ticket holders would out weight any revenue loss (eg 4000 X $5 is still better than 750 X $25).

I feel adoption of the above would enhance the collaboration between two important parts of the Manly family as well as simplifying the ‘structure’ for club supporters.  This would also align the club to the successful  AFL membership model.
 
thanks Vidmar I'm sure there are a number of footy club members who are looking forward to an update.
 
Thanks C&C & Wheel - some good ideas and valid points.

SER8 will keep you updated and MB we've had chats re this over a cold beer a couple of times and no doubt will again.

There are not many who have money to "chuck' around and of course there are all many of essentials in life that take precedent over a football team so if the club is to remain solvent they need to have the ability to listen to their supporters (customers) and act accordingly.

So once again...open forum...I'd be especially keen to hear any comments from people who aren't members and why not?

This is not meant to be a hospital pass so that others can belittle them, rather the more meaningful and constructive feedback we get the more consideration can be put in to the structure of memberships and the more likely that issues can be addressed or aspects communicated in a better fashion? 

Vidmar
 
I'll try to dig out the proposal I gave to the club a few years ago vidmar.  Quite a bit of it made its way into Screaming Eagles but there might be additional ideas that could be of use.

I second the strong sentiment that a way must be found to combine the various options.
 
Mark from Brisbane link said:
Matabele and Vidmar conversing, now that's a turn up.

hehe I've actually sat between these 2 at a game Mark and there were no fisticuffs :)

More Cordial conversation if anything ;)
 
Team P W L PD Pts
3 3 0 48 6
4 3 1 28 6
3 2 1 10 6
4 2 2 39 4
3 2 1 28 4
3 2 1 15 4
3 2 1 14 4
2 1 1 13 4
2 1 1 6 4
3 2 1 -3 4
3 1 2 0 2
3 1 2 -5 2
3 1 2 -15 2
3 1 2 -22 2
3 1 2 -36 2
2 0 2 -56 2
3 0 3 -64 0
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