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Much better lines and structure in attack.

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Technical Coach, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    Major improvement with our structures and line running in attack great to see and the signs I have been looking for. I have been stating for years that shorter flatter passing from dummy half with our ball players more central will open up straighter line running options further infield on top of giving space to our outside backs.

    The amount of off the ball line running on both sides of the field by Symonds that is closer infield promotes the outside runners to straighten also. (one leads the others follow, not just hang back deep not knowing what to do and crabbing sideways)

    The first Brett Stewart try is off the back of better structures in our attacking set up and genuine hole running. Notice how Glenn is also line running and playing straighter in the redzone off the back of a Symonds lead run earlier in the play. Better structures will lead to more tries further in field showing we are playing straighter and tighter, this will reduce all those oooh ahhh in the corner tries that often head over the sideline.

    Also loving how we are using the telegraphed second man play to our advantage and using it as a decoy---suck in the outside in defence and play either deeper around it or wider over it. I've mentioned this as an option in the past and it should be used more often.

    Glenn for the last 4-6 weeks is playing some of his best footy for years, playing tighter, running straighter and getting the right balance of playing like a backrower who can ballplay not an overweight 5/8 who occasionally plays like a back rower/lock. Running straighter lines, hole running, doing the hard yards and ballplaying tighter in allowing space on his outside.

    Loving the hole running inner edge line run of G.Rose in the second half, another aspect I have wanted to see for quite some time. I want more forwards running lines in this area of the field as lead runners.

    Still would like to see more inside hip simple plays similar to the Brett Stewart GF try of 2011 but using our fast paced forwards---there was a half opening for Symonds in the first half with Ryles slow on the inside but Foran just kept on playing to his right. Would like to see Foran step,straighten and pass off his inside hip against the defensive slide, you can even have a lead inside runner decoy and pass to a second option for simple variation.

    I could go on about the Melb performance and looking very flat for the last few weeks but I'm more than happy with our first 50-60mins effort to keep this short lol.

    I do worry if we don't rack up the points after playing at such a high tempo we will lose our form and structure in the second half but as long as we are being clinical with our attack all is good.
     
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  2. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    How NRL Immortal Joey Johns has boosted the Sea Eagles title hopes
    JON GEDDES MANLY DAILY SEPTEMBER 02, 2013 3:21PM

    ASSISTANT Queensland State of Origin says Sea Eagles halves Daly Cherry-Evans and Kieran Foran have taken their game to new level this year- thanks to the influence of rugby league Immortal Andrew Johns.

    Recruiting arguably the game's greatest halfback to work with the dynamic duo is proving to be a masterstroke as the Sea Eagles approach the finals.

    ``When look at the top-shelf performances of Manly halves Daly Cherry-Evans and Kieran Foran I think of one name. Andrew Johns,'' Hagan said.

    ``Cherry-Evans has certainly taken his game to another level this year under the watchful eye of Johns.''

    Hagan emphasised his comments were in no way trying to downplay the role and success of head coach Geoff Toovey, who he said was doing an outstanding job.


    ``But I could tell the difference in Cherry-Evans when he walked into Queensland camp this year,'' Hagan said in his column on yahoo! 7.

    ``He just had a presence about him. I like the way he carried himself.

    ``He was always going to be a fine player but Johns has put the polish on him.''

    Hagan is premiership winning player and coach who has been credited as one the brains behind Queensland's Origin success.

    And he described the way Cherry-Evans and Foran executed in Saturday's 28-8 win over Melbourne as ``clinical.''

    Manly attacked Melbourne's left edge of

    ``Cherry-Evans and Foran are ready to take Manly all the way this year,'' Hagan said.

    ``They are Manly's future - the club looks in safe hands.''


    Hagan said that at times it can be difficult for someone like Johns to coach because he was such a natural player.

    ``But Johns seems to have made the transition into coaching very comfortably. And Cherry-Evans and Foran are the big winners,'' he said
     
  3. jbb/james

    jbb/james Well-Known Member

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    its comforting to know you approve. Under toovey its been very obvious they have tried to reinvent the way they play. They have tried to utilise the star studded backline a lot more, and unload the safety first footy they had embraced under the hasler era

    tooves was thrown in late last year and had little time to re invent the wheel and looked like he went with the structures in place

    This year they started the year trying to get the defence in order to compliment the new attacking footy they were about to unleash.It was a smart move to build around the basic and not try to be too lavish too soon. A big injury toll and a rusty implementation at first, saw them throw the ball around and in many situations the last pass just not sticking. This has been complicated many times by many people but just needed practice, and time

    Now with a few months of practice under game conditions the team has clicked, and they are blowing sides off the park , with a free flowing game that hasnt been seen for many years

    I argue that the structures and lines have been in place for sometime but it has taken time to adjust and perfect under game conditions. Having 4 backs in the top 10 try scorers hasnt happened in the last month, it has happened through hard work and a plan.

    Many havnt noticed the differences and have relied on footy speak and cliches to describe Manlys attack when it was purely in a transitional process, and was a work in progress

    Just because lines, structures. corridors, second man phase, are all new talk talk, creating overlaps for wingers to score is as old as dirt. When you freeze the tape and disect footy into mini seconds and nanobitsies its sometimes easy to miss the big picture

    I hope you have learnt as much from toovey as you think you have taught
     
  4. The Wheel

    The Wheel Well-Known Member

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    At last Tooves has listened, well done Tooves and hope you enjoy the humble pie.

    I do agree with TC after watching the replay last night - the first half was terrific and the structure in attack and fluent passing and support play was one for the ages.
     
  5. bones

    bones Bones Knows Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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  6. MK Eagle

    MK Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Structure & shape has improved due to more bodies in motion.
    This is creating plenty of poor reads from the defence & instead of always hitting the 2nd man play at the back ( usually B Stewart) are also hitting the A & B runners flat & short ( Horo, Buhrer) creating far less predictability.
    The option runners are also running through the defensive lines, where in the past pulled up often not even reaching the defenders which allows the defenders to take them out & play the obstruction card.
    Also have noticed against the compressed Melbourne defence plenty of early shift creating at least 5 opportunities of a 2 on 1 out wide.
    Its the off the ball runners who are causing headaches & like defence , its attitude & confidence which is pretty good atm.
    Also liking the pressure not on Gift to have to create EVERY play on that right edge often giving Lyon early ball & Gift shifting play direct behind the markers where the space is with far more variation than 2012.
     
  7. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Yup those two tries from kicks showed great flat structure......just kidding
     
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  8. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    If Technical Coach is happy, I'm happy.
     
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  9. jbb/james

    jbb/james Well-Known Member

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    The early ball gifty was giving last week was massive, allowing speed to shine. It also gave gifty something that has been missing, variety in his attack. It was a great game to be sitting behind the goalposts to watch it all unfold. You just couldnt blink

    There is no other forward in the world like gifty when he is on song. He is Rugby League
     
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  10. Jethro

    Jethro This space is for rent Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I wonder if they even read that article before they put it to print. HappilyManly, I thought that you had only taken snippets and posted them here but when I looked at the original it was the same thing with dialogue missing in places.

    Examples:

    ASSISTANT Queensland State of Origin what? Who?

    "When look at the top-shelf performances of Manly halves Daly Cherry-Evans and Kieran Foran" should be "When I look at"

    "Manly attacked Melbourne's left edge of" what? Where's the rest of the sentence? That unfinished line certainly doesn't appear to tie in with the:

    ``Cherry-Evans and Foran are ready to take Manly all the way this year,'' Hagan said.

    ``They are Manly's future - the club looks in safe hands.''


    lines that follow "Manly attacked Melbourne's left edge of" to me.
     
  11. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Thank heaven for small mercies.



    (Nah, joking, love your work TC.)
     
  12. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    :huh: It made sense to me, as all I read was Manly is going to win the Comp with our two young halves :D
     
  13. mickqld

    mickqld Sack Greenslime 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Now I'm REALLY happy. Keep it up TC love it. 2V and others kept mentioning little things like "we have a few surprises" and "we are working on a few things" the last month or 2. Now we are starting to see it and it's going to have the other coaches ****ED at trying to stop it so late in the season.
    [hr]
    The only thing that will stop us will be injuries and/or pink clowns. We won't be outplayed.
     
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  14. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    First of all I have stated all along since Toovey has been in charge that he was polishing up our attack and addressing issues left over from Hasler.

    Defence is more just an attitude thing for the most part combined with good communication and simple but effective defensive structures. If anything our scramble and commitment is better but we are more fragile this year under pressure, same with the Storm.

    Creating overlaps for wingers to score is as old as dirt but also one dimensional. Manly have been over reliant for years creating tries and openings for our outside backs, we try to finesse and look too pretty and our running lines have been poor for years.

    Toovey is playing a faster tempo sharper flatter and more straight around the ruck combined with allowing greater ball movement, but lets not forget Hasler started the increased ball playing that helped Manly win the 08 title. Toovey is polishing the attack and adding extra dimensions which is making the attack more clinical, he is addressing the issues I have been stating for years so I am a fan of what he is doing.

    Lets not get too carried away, Melb has looked flat for a Month(could be increased intensity at training and tapering off for the Semi's), Roosters and Souths have also looked flat.

    Manly won the tackle in attack and defence, the speed of our play the balls and the ball movement is essential especially against the Storm to reduce their ability to slow down the ruck. Melb's line speed was poor in the first half and their effort in the tackle was lacking but I have not rated Melb all year so it was not a surprise, we have Melb's measure this year.

    The true test for our attack is when the game is tight the grind has set in and teams are going set for set, will our structures and lines remain sharp and straight under fatigue or do we resort back to our comfortable plays and bad habits.

    At the moment I have not been "taught" anything just seeing evidence that Toovey is thinking along the same lines as myself. Tooveys player purchases have been spot on in addressing a lack of speed, punch, strength and hole running I identified years ago, having Andrew Johns to help improve our attack when most average observers thought it was more than good enough and getting our halves to play more central.

    The attack still needs to be improved but is on the right path and Toovey is aware we need more strength up the middle with the development of Hasson for next year and through forward purchases. More tries in the future will come from strength plays and forwards increasing their try scoring output, line running will not just be a feature for outside backs and the odd back rower but the entire squad will be a danger especially within 30mtrs.
    [hr]
    Having more options/bodies in motion does not rectify attacking structure just increases options and becoming less predictable. You can have a 1000 options but if you execute all those options with poor structures and a lack of science leading up to the plays you will still get a poor return for your efforts.
     
  15. MK Eagle

    MK Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Wrong - bodies in motion create defensive lines to make bad defensive reads & is integral in helping structures flow.
    For example if you have the 2012 second man play out the back, to shut down Snake at the back teams would often seem outnumbered but because of the predictability could easily slide showing the sideline & generally frustrating the attack who would force a pressured pass ect.
    Now - with more runners - the option of hitting the short ball & playing through the defence rather than around it is causing opposition defenders all sorts of problems. This also helps that 2nd man play due to the fact defenders MUST hold for longer in case the short pass is thrown ensuring more time for the 3/4 to execute the play with less pressure - theres your execution......
    Basically its easier to pick up a player in space when there are 4 to choose from than 1.
    The science you refer to is what most would call hard direct running & again in numbers to ensure the attacker is not dominated leading up to the BIG plays.
    Manly have recently been winning the battle in the middle from working harder & playing tougher with more energy than the opposition, this is what is is giving the time to execute.
    Also on defence TC - it comes down to communication, line speed, technique, contact & winning the ground war but by far - in fact - the length of the straight - is attitude....
     
  16. Go manly

    Go manly Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    After putting on my tecnical coaches hat,what i think is important is that we score more points than the opposition each game.
    I reckon that our % ratio of wins would increase,our lines would be good,structure superb,enthusiasm great and inside,outside and up side down plays in the middle and outside would be flat and deep.

    Fair dinkum
    Go to the front door and yell out Go Manly as lound as you can and enjoy the show in the semis.

    GO MANLY
     
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  17. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    You need sharpness directness and penetration through the middle in "most games" to make it easier for the attack not debating that, and yes more options in flooding attacking zones with options is a key part but what i am talking about is using those options with better lines, angles and preparation in the lead up.

    You can have 100 options but if every one of those options are not either "believable hole runners", "Effective line runners", or used in the right manner you are wasting your time.

    The science behind an attack is the thought process leading up to the play sometimes even a few tackles before the play that creates a conducive environment for that play to come off. At times under pressure we are more a "pop action" attack, attack left then attack right then a settle then attack the edge again, no real deep thought in drawing in defensive numbers through progressive plays.
     

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