"Management" of this Club

[Frogz]

How come you know so much and yet this is your first post on Silvertails?

And Im pretty sure the guy that didn't sign Stewart is well and truly gone

 

[br00ky]

1. Dessies main frusteration wasnt contract money. It was managements continual interference into issues he felt was his responsibility. If management backed off & even sweetened his deal, he wouldnt have even considered leaving.

2. DCE & Foz both being off contract at the sametime & both being allowed to drag on negiotiations into this season is a massive eff-up. If both couldnt agree to re-sign early on, one of them should have been made a priority & re-signed by now. Now the club will be deseparate to not lose Foz also, playing into the hands of Fozs manager

3. If Gifty was re-signed, Choc would be here, Snake wouldnt have even considered leaving, Matai wouldnt have considered leaving, Foz would have re-signed. Whoever was responsible for Gift leaving should be sacked, it was the worst possible decision and has brought about an unnecessary early end of a great dynasty for the club (and thats not with the benefit of hindsight). It was the wrong call then and remains the wrong call now.

4. Support Toovey. He really is doing his best. But like Dessies days management are trying to once again make decisions that Toovey should at least be a part of (the argument between him and Kelly was 100% real). Look at some other clubs (not all in fairness): Bennett, Bellamy, Hasler & McQuire have final say and usually the only say on who is signed and let go. I understand Toovey is 'new' as a coach, however his choice on recruitment/retention has to be respected. At the moment he doesnt have enough control of this department as he feels he should.

5. Post 2011 GF. Hasler didnt want to derail the season once he decided to leave a few months out from the finals & at the time no one could have predicted we would have won the comp months out from the GF. He made it crystal clear that he would not tolerate any talk or news of his departure from our club before seasons end. The Dogs complied. Season ended, premiership won, his manager leaks to media he is 100% leaving and all chaos breaks loose post GF (with the GF won, he doesnt deny his leaving when asked, Dogs dont deny it when asked & our celebrations are derailed by the media wanting to focus now on Des leaving). Its hardly Dessies fault. He had only the success of the playing group in mind when he made it clear that his departure from the club wouldnt be discussed until our 2011 season was over.

I really feel some of these issues need to be clarified amongst our fellow fans, because there are alot of unthruths spread through media, usually to lay the blame for mistakes at another person.

Things are far from perfect but We will bounce back.

 

[KOMORI]

Oh thank god for you The Who.

For a minute there I thought our entire database of posters had lost the plot.

I was out shopping for some salt

 

[nodd]

How come you know so much and yet this is your first post on Silvertails?

So just because it's his first post makes him irrelevant?

Maybe he didn't want to post because of some the bull**** posts that are made here.

And especially against newcomers, from smarty pants that think you now everything.

 

[br00ky]

You make a lot of sense @br00ky but 12 months ago its easy to see how prioritising DCE over Gifty was the "short term pain long term gain" option and extending our aging players only to let the young stars walk seemed shortsighted.

Of course hindsight is 20-20 but plenty on hear 12 months ago were saying we better be SURE both DCE and Foz would be staying before we made such a heartwrenching and unpopular call on Gifty.

Your correct. But everyone at the club knew that allowing Gifty to leave meant we could lose Snake, & it could also have a negative impact on Choc, Matai & Foz & others. They took the punt on the other players not being affected by Gift leaving but have failed miserably because:
1) Gift left
2) Foz or DCE werent secured & nearly 1 season on we could be in a position of having neither even though we "saved" Giftys contract money
3) The rest of the playing group has been dramatically affected. Chocs gone, Snake & Matai considered leaving, Foz is at least considering leaving. The bond amongst these players was the glue keeping the team united & the spirit strong amongst playing group. The envy of all other clubs and the ingedient necessary for success.
4) Constant media speculation BS would have a negative impact, the season has started and its still not sorted

The whole thing has been a complete failure and im trying to put it nicely. Its not the work of a great management team by any stretch. Im really not political & dont have anything personal against anyone in management but I fail to see what they have achieved RE our playing roster since they handed Gift on a platter to Souths.

 

[Mavin]

So just wondering, what has Penn actually done to help our great club?? I am serious here, so I was hoping someone could inform me kindly please.

I do not know him personally so would also like to hear some thoughts on him as a person as well.


By the way.........Des left our club, he alone chose money over loyalty. I don't care what his manager may or may not have said he is a big man he can make decisions for himself. He is also an ego centric control freak and the way he left our club was utterly disgusting and no matter how bad things may or may not have been with our management at that time, you do not crap on your work place on the way out. And especially if that workplace had given you so much through out your life like Manly did.

What has he done so far? absolutely nothing he talks a big game (dce and foz signed by Christmas) but has so far delivered nothing. But we do have these pie in the sky plans for a stadium that we all know won't happen because NO government is ever going 2 give us the money needed for the stadium.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

I was out shopping for some salt

While your there could you pick me up some consonants, as I am still trying to take the words "Dessie" and "Zorba" and rearrange them into br00ky

 

[Ralphie]

Hi guys, lifelong fan, parents have been involved with the club their whole lifetimes and they have had some and still have some real strong relationships with some important figures in our club past & present (Just some context from where this post comes from).

Those in charge of managment of out great club from post 2010 are the main reason we are facing the issues we are today.

1. Coach Des: Its easy to hate, but that would be ignoring what was going on. Rewind back to 2010 - 2011. We are a strong club, dominating the comp, yearly contenders only rivalled by a salary cap cheating storm, we have a great coach. Performances on the field are always strong, the team is united, the team is motivated. Why did coach Des even consider looking outside?

Heres the truth: Post 2010 'management' were always interefering in the football department and overruling Des on issues he felt he should be in control of. He was greatly frusterated by this.

Add to this he was constantly told & knew he was being greatly underpaid. His salary was in the 400Ks at the time (good money for most of us), but he could easily demand DOUBLE that anywhere else and thats what he got.

So his manager gets in his ear, tell him we can present some other deals (and there were other clubs interested). Dogs offer him FULL CONTROL of the football department. No interference from front office - That was Dessies number 1 demand, and just logical with his proven track record.

Back with our management during this time, the clubs still not backing off interfering in the footy department, they arent considering upgrading his contract, KPIs still part of his contract. He Walks

2. Backended Contracts: Dessies startegy to try to keep the core group together as long as possible was not a failure. He managed to do it while he was here, but it relied on re-extending deals pre-contracts ending and not ending up in a situation where we have 2 of our biggest stars off contract at the SAME TIME. Des left 3 years ago, blaming him for this current mess with Foran & DCE offcontract at the same time is just a copout.

3. GIFTY: Letting him walk was literally the straw that broke the camels back. Whoever was responsible for this decision should be SACKED immediately. It was totally the wrong call (and clearly wrong at the time). Regardless of their arguments: he was getting old, money etc, he was part of the glue that kept the boys together. Best mates with all those players part of our dynstay. Brother of our current champion fullback. Let him go: straight away Snakes is offside and unhappy & fields offers from rivals. Wouldnt you keep Gift even if he had zero ability just to keep his brother happy? The flow on effect: Chocs offside. Matais offside. Forans offside.

Truth number 2. Gifty hasnt signed a rediculous $$$ deal with Souths. So the money issue is only really an "issue" if the club wanted to throw huge dollars at DCE & Foran ... But this leads into the last part:

4. DCE: This guy has NOW done more harm than good at our club. Its not the clubs fault or his, that he has become a great player, good luck to him on that. However, for his sake, players were sacrificed, decisions were made in the effort of keeping him and Foz together (like letting GIFT go) and he now just walks out to not a contender but a complete basket case of a club. The publicity his management (which DCE is responsible for) created during the last few months was very selfish and destabilising. Players can make it very clear to managers they want zero publicity and zero leaks, but this can lead to inferior offers, DCE obviously didnt. In two words greedy and selfish.

If the decision was made that DCE was going even less than a season ago. Gifty would be here, Choc would be here and we could be spending our time and energy into finding the next new gun half or a decent replacement. This isnt hindsight. The big eff up in all of this was allowing players to leave before DCE or Foz were either both secured, or one was allowed to leave to keep the others.

The right call: the decision should have been made that DCE wouldnt be retained due to the salary cap, it would have allowed the rest of the core group to be retained. That would have taken real good management, and has been seen at some other club. Short term pain yes, but longterm correct decision. Most people acknowledge if you have the luck of having 2 of the best halves in the game come through the ranks at the same time its near impossible to retain them both and keep a strong roster, unless they take a paycut. Not hindsight, just some strong management which is EXACTLY what management is paid to do.

The fault of the clubs current position=managment.

Wrong, this was caused by the previous Management, specifically the Quantum faction who created this mess by pushing Gifty out. Had the current Administration been in control then, Gift would be here and the current mess would not have happened.

 

[Brookie Brawler]

I know what you mean @br00ky. Those in management should have been in a better position than us fans to know what would happen if they let Gift go, and if they couldn't figure it out for themselves its not like the playing group didn't try to warn them.

 

[sheridanstand78]

There was a collective failure from management this time last year that did not communicate to the senior players what was going on. That was the day that the decline of this team became terminal.

 

[Eagleheart]

What has he done so far? absolutely nothing he talks a big game (dce and foz signed by Christmas) but has so far delivered nothing. But we do have these pie in the sky plans for a stadium that we all know won't happen because NO government is ever going 2 give us the money needed for the stadium.

Thanks Mavin, appreciate your response.

Hmm just wondering if anyone else has any other input on Penn....any takers at all!!

 

[Eagleheart]

Your correct. But everyone at the club knew that allowing Gifty to leave meant we could lose Snake, & it could also have a negative impact on Choc, Matai & Foz & others. They took the punt on the other players not being affected by Gift leaving but have failed miserably because:
1) Gift left
2) Foz or DCE werent secured & nearly 1 season on we could be in a position of having neither even though we "saved" Giftys contract money
3) The rest of the playing group has been dramatically affected. Chocs gone, Snake & Matai considered leaving, Foz is at least considering leaving. The bond amongst these players was the glue keeping the team united & the spirit strong amongst playing group. The envy of all other clubs and the ingedient necessary for success.
4) Constant media speculation BS would have a negative impact, the season has started and its still not sorted

The whole thing has been a complete failure and im trying to put it nicely. Its not the work of a great management team by any stretch. Im really not political & dont have anything personal against anyone in management but I fail to see what they have achieved RE our playing roster since they handed Gift on a platter to Souths.

So when you say management @br00ky, would you say that all management have had a hand in this mess, meaning both the Quantum and Penn factions? Maybe meaning we are still no better off even now the Penn's have control?

And as far as De$ is concerned I will agree to disagree with you on that one. I think his actions have really damaged any respect I have for him. The GF 2011 fan parade in Manly where he was actually heard saying 'show me the money', then trying to coerce people away from Manly both players and staff and many other things do not sit well for me at all. He could have been professional and gone quietly but he did not. He had or has no thought for the Manly club or fans, just himself.

 

[zambuck]

thank god there was no social media when we lost bozo , Ronnie Gibbs and the like , get a life all you idiots what has happened now has happened before . Stop blaming all and sundry for what has happened, it has before and will in the future just be happy that this mighty club has given you some exciting times and also some sad ones eg: the northern eagles/ norths fiasco. If we have a couple of poor seasons so what we are MANLY and proud of it , we had years of not winning premierships always runner ups until 1972, and our determination has never waned yet after 1 game everyone is ready to slash their wrists, todays players are fully professional rest assured that cherry-evans will still give his all until seasons end he may be a money seeking grub to some of you but he is still a professional and has still to perform for this club if he doesn't he risks being out of S.O.O and risks his place in the Australian team, and no player wants this to happen, lets see how he goes over the next few weeks and then if I am wrong , I may then join the negatives on this site , but I have been around this clubs teams for around 30 years re my name Zambuck, and not one player that has left this great club by announcing their defection during the season that has not given their all for this club, if anyone can name a player that has let this club down in this respect please name them. I for one have followed MANLY since 1954 and have never given up on this great club. GO MANLY stick it up them all

 

[br00ky]

So when you say management @br00ky, would you say that all management have had a hand in this mess, meaning both the Quantum and Penn factions? Maybe meaning we are still no better off even now the Penn's have control?

And as far as De$ is concerned I will agree to disagree with you on that one. I think his actions have really damaged any respect I have for him. The GF 2011 fan parade in Manly where he was actually heard saying 'show me the money', then trying to coerce people away from Manly both players and staff and many other things do not sit well for me at all. He could have been professional and gone quietly but he did not. He had or has no thought for the Manly club or fans, just himself.

My opinion is based on what many of the older heads say, that were around pre superleague, and that is a real dislike in the politics involved in the footy club now, the agenda is more about control rather than ensuring the best decision is made in the clubs interests.

Their is alot of finger pointing in the club from both parties as to who was responsible for what and shifting blame at each other. Thats been a big problem, one faction undermining another not for the benefit of the football club but for their own benefit.

Its disappointing because the priority of all board members and front office staff should be acting in the interests of the football club FIRST before any politics.

Theres always been politics involved in the footy club but as an example in the good old days our officials always put their differences aside to ensure the best decision was made first, its clear that this hasnt been going on.

 

[Eagleheart]

My opinion is based on what many of the older heads say, that were around pre superleague, and that is a real dislike in the politics involved in the footy club now, the agenda is more about control rather than ensuring the best decision is made in the clubs interests.

Their is alot of finger pointing in the club from both parties as to who was responsible for what and shifting blame at each other. Thats been a big problem, one faction undermining another not for the benefit of the football club but for their own benefit.

Its disappointing because the priority of all board members and front office staff should be acting in the interests of the football club FIRST before any politics.

Theres always been politics involved in the footy club but as an example in the good old days our officials always put their differences aside to ensure the best decision was made first, its clear that this hasnt been going on.

Thanks for sharing your opinion @br00ky.

I agree with you on this "all board members and front office staff should be acting in the interests of the football club FIRST before any politics".

I really, really hope that our current management can put ego, control, past grievances, petty one upmanship etc aside and do what is best for the club which ultimately includes the fans and players that want to be here. And actually make positive decisions to steer the Mighty Sea Eagles to success now and in the future. The responsibility clearly lays 100% with them now and they can no longer use the excuse of a divided board for ineptness.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

1. Dessies main frusteration wasnt contract money. It was managements continual interference into issues he felt was his responsibility. If management backed off & even sweetened his deal, he wouldnt have even considered leaving.

2. DCE & Foz both being off contract at the sametime & both being allowed to drag on negiotiations into this season is a massive eff-up. If both couldnt agree to re-sign early on, one of them should have been made a priority & re-signed by now. Now the club will be deseparate to not lose Foz also, playing into the hands of Fozs manager

3. If Gifty was re-signed, Choc would be here, Snake wouldnt have even considered leaving, Matai wouldnt have considered leaving, Foz would have re-signed. Whoever was responsible for Gift leaving should be sacked, it was the worst possible decision and has brought about an unnecessary early end of a great dynasty for the club (and thats not with the benefit of hindsight). It was the wrong call then and remains the wrong call now.

4. Support Toovey. He really is doing his best. But like Dessies days management are trying to once again make decisions that Toovey should at least be a part of (the argument between him and Kelly was 100% real). Look at some other clubs (not all in fairness): Bennett, Bellamy, Hasler & McQuire have final say and usually the only say on who is signed and let go. I understand Toovey is 'new' as a coach, however his choice on recruitment/retention has to be respected. At the moment he doesnt have enough control of this department as he feels he should.

5. Post 2011 GF. Hasler didnt want to derail the season once he decided to leave a few months out from the finals & at the time no one could have predicted we would have won the comp months out from the GF. He made it crystal clear that he would not tolerate any talk or news of his departure from our club before seasons end. The Dogs complied. Season ended, premiership won, his manager leaks to media he is 100% leaving and all chaos breaks loose post GF (with the GF won, he doesnt deny his leaving when asked, Dogs dont deny it when asked & our celebrations are derailed by the media wanting to focus now on Des leaving). Its hardly Dessies fault. He had only the success of the playing group in mind when he made it clear that his departure from the club wouldnt be discussed until our 2011 season was over.

I really feel some of these issues need to be clarified amongst our fellow fans, because there are alot of unthruths spread through media, usually to lay the blame for mistakes at another person.

Things are far from perfect but We will bounce back.

That's one view of the Ha$ler fiasco, guess it depends on which version you believe, I think I'll stick to the version I think is right, which by the way ain't yours!!

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

While your there could you pick me up some consonants, as I am still trying to take the words "Dessie" and "Zorba" and rearrange them into br00ky

Classic @Jatz Crackers an absolute classic !!

 

[damiennp90]

Only point I disagree with is the back ended contracts. Your telling me that players won't like to keep what there on. Choc was back ended to 900,000 on his last year. I'm sure he's still on that now. Just saying.

 

[tookey]

Thanks for the infp BrOOky. Keep it comming

 

[HoldenV8]

Its a pity that the club doesn't have an administrator like Arko running things.

I think you all know the reason why.