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Loyalty OR Business

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by maxta, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. maxta

    maxta Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    This debate grows legs more when it involves a Seaeagles player but fact is, it happens at every club.
    Personally a massive fan of loyalty & certain players like the Beaver is living proof this still exists.
    Thing is, Beaver could have collected more coin elsewhere, but these offers came when he was an established superstar on good money already & had the smarts to realise staying at the 1 powerful club was a great investment for his future off the field.....1 club star players are held in high esteem & are a rare breed respected even by opposition fans.
    Then we look at young Knight - imo a future gun, but unproven at NRL level.
    Roosters have got in under the guard & appear to have offered far bigger money in what seems to be almost a replicated Warea - Hargreaves case....... case closed - well noone here knows 100%.
    Personally think its tough to judge the kid on this, ANY youngster in the modern game would have doors open to massive overs from other clubs & while we talk loyalty.....there is a business side in this case.
    Looking in from the outside I think "Hey , Hold on Liam - the grass may look greener today, but both your footy future & financial situation are better long term where you already are"
    Whatever the outcome in this case there is a bigger picture for mine - honesty & ethics.
    My favourite player back in the day, Ron Gibbs jumped ship to Gold Coast & I was a shattered kid.
    Almost angry, thinking about that loyalty card, but Gibbs turned me with his amazing couragous footy on the field showing he was 100% commited to Manly & in my eyes, maintained his Manly legend status.
    If anything he was a man possessed, lifting his intensity somehow & went out a winner.
    Point is, rather than bluff the fans on a players future, show some integrity & don't pretend its still some ongoing decision for the entire season, misleading the fans & team mates.
    The young players are not at fault, keep in mind they are media puppets repeating advice from managers, family ect....IF knight or ANY player is leaving, far more respect is earned by honesty & then simply getting on with the job of playing good footy till its time to move on.
     
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  2. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    There is 'Local Loyalty' and 'Purchased Loyalty'.
    When you are a local junior, living locally with all your friends nearby, and growing up supporting a club then the dollar value you place on that emotional investment is significant. I would put it at 20%.
    'Purchased loyalty' is when a club buys your services.
    So, as a local junior I'd be prepared to stay for 20% less than an outside offer.
     
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  3. BOZO

    BOZO Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    We have the most destructive forward of them all in Kapow . I am happy with that . If Liam wants to leave then so be it . Many greater players than Liam have left but history has proven that the mighty Sea eagles have remained the most successful and greatest team in the modern era .
    Go the mighty Sea eagles and all the other clubs and their players can go and get fcked !!!
    12745916_1071606579551364_3724198525058107192_n.jpg
     
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  4. SeaEagle21

    SeaEagle21 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I think my emotional investment in this died when last season was over. Between DCE, Foz, Toovey and the MWSE, the players and club are both to blame. There is not a more loyal person to Manly than Geoff, and he was treated like rubbish. As for the players now-a-days loyalty is related to $$$, sure some might have local connections but the world is a lot smaller place and distance isn't as much a factor as previously.

    As for Liam, would love him to stay, really would but apparently the Roosters have got him and it's potentially over before it began. The fight for 1st place spots there, especially in the forwards is a lot harder than with us but it doesn't stop players signing for them regardless. I'm not going to rubbish him over his choice of where he wants to play because as i've stated getting worked up over these types of issues are over as far as i'm concerned. It is 100% a business and nothing more, as long as he doesn't rubbish the club then good luck to him for his future.

    Tbh would have been great to have him and Jake T as our starting Props in coming years as they would have been special being local products.
     
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  5. double hoops

    double hoops Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Generally doing good business and loyalty go hand in hand.
     
  6. Woodsie

    Woodsie played strong, done good.

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    I used to put great store in loyalty, today I will settle for simple integrity.

    We seem to also forget that the great Bob Fulton left us for a golden retirement at rorters as did another GF winning captain in Fatty.
     
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  7. brad

    brad Well-Known Member

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    Its a business . We got kapow which pissed alot of his supporters off but not me , he signed with the mighty sea eagles and adds this aura to our pack. Basically you win some you lose some and sadly thats the way it is, so to lose knight will be a bitter sweet to me and realistically we dont know if this kid is going to be a superstar like KAPOW......
     
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  8. midsteyne

    midsteyne Well-Known Member

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    loyalty started to die in the early 70's,but guys like beaver kept the flame burning.
    interestingly the great Wally Lewis stayed one season too long at the seagulls,he shoulda stayed at the donkeys for a one team career.
     
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  9. HoldenV8

    HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

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    Fatty didn't go by choice though. Bozo just got an offer backed by Kerry Packer that even Arko couldn't match.
     
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  10. HoldenV8

    HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

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    Beaver is one in a million.

    Lewis probably would have stayed at the Donkeys until the end of his career but for the fact that he got his nose out of joint when Bennett stripped him of the captaincy then had him playing lock in preference to Kevin Walters. Though if truth be told Bennett probably saw that Lewis was coming to the end of his career and thought (correctly as it turned out) that Walters was a better long term prospect.
     
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  11. Clint

    Clint . Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Agreed. Fatty very much wanted to stay.
     
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  12. StuBoot

    StuBoot Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    It's nice to think of loyalty and all that but....do you take 20% less on a promise of making it back later and being like Beaver? - and really he is a rarity in that he's squeaky clean, media savvy, was relatively uninjured and his versatility at the top level is unmatched.
    Or do you say to yourself "this my career" - it may be over next week or next month or next year or I may have a golden run and be at the top for a decade.

    We don't know what the comparative $$ and promises are for each deal and the length offered but the old adage of " a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" rings true with most people.

    Ask yourself, if you were a better than average apprentice/trainee and was reasonably happy where you were but another company came and said "we'll give you 25% more pay, take over your apprenticeship and fast track you" tell me you wouldn't seriously consider it?
     
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  13. Killer03

    Killer03 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we need to look at loyalty v business. I don't necessarily think they need to be mutually exclusive. But it's also a two way street from players and the club. Creating a culture of loyalty and mateship (which we are told existed in this last 10 year golden period) can also have very significant business impacts. It can mean players wanting to come and play for a little less (hoping to improve and win a premiership and hence also increase their value) and players staying for that little bit less as well.

    I do think at times players (especially the very good ones) can be very short sighted and ruin reputations for a few extra bucks, when that might cost them once their career is over.

    I'm with others though on here who say they just want some integrity, here here. I've no issue with players, coaches, staff leaving. But don't rubbish the place on your way out and don't be devious in your dealings...but again that goes both ways. Management need to be transparent also.
     
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  14. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Business is business. If they know you are staying anyway then why should they offer a better deal? You have to at least raise the possibility of leaving, or there is nothing to negotiate. (Which is possibly the exact tactic the Penns have been using with council.)
     
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  15. midsteyne

    midsteyne Well-Known Member

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    photo attached my all time favourite hardman,used to love watching this guy do the rounds:)
     
  16. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Loyalty. Both ways. Even with people / players I dislike. Not a fan of Toovey, but still wish he was coach. Also wish G Stewart, Watmough and Buhrer were our backrow.

    Way Ballin was treated was a dead set falacy.

    Maybe I'm just dumb and old fashioned.

    There ain't no legends like Greg Florimo anymore. Dumb sport.
     
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  17. Wombat Legacy

    Wombat Legacy Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Steve Menzies may have been a better analogy! Pick it up champ
     
  18. Wombat Legacy

    Wombat Legacy Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Bozo-you make it all seem so right-its just so easy!
     
  19. Peter C

    Peter C Well-Known Member

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    Yes he very much wanted to stay, especially when he was getting $100,000 a season at the time, Manly were only prepared to offer him $50,000, probably knowing that he wouldn't stay for that amount and the Roosters offered $90,000, he retired two years later.
    Vautin and Doug Daley did not get on at all and it was a case of which one goes, there was a real rot in the club at the time and we lost a lot of players that year.
     
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  20. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha. Good point mate. To me Steve Menzies will go down as my favorite ever player until the day I die.

    Class, loyalty, leadership, utility..tje bloke had absolutely everything.

    The NRL needed to do heaps more for him when he retired.

    Yup, Beaver is a dead set God amongst men. No player could compare.
     
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