Kelly optimistic with Foran and DCE

[sheridanstand78]

I believe that Bunny George will head to English Rugga like his big bro, they will offer huge money for him, Aussie clubs are going to struggle too as our dollar is diving and that will make it harder. Time will tell.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The difference is that Souths players aren't as good, wouldn't make such a dramatic difference to other clubs, so simply weren't in as much demand as ours.


If we offered Foz & Cherry even close to your $1mil I reckon they'd sign in a flash.

 

[sheridanstand78]

What do you suggest should be the offer for them?

You have a point about the Souffs halves, it was stated that Reynolds was highly sought after byt the Sharks and dragons.

 

[Daddycool]

The club has a finite amount of money it can spend for both. Which means, at some point they are going to say to them "that's the most we can offer".

There are desperate clubs chasing both individually. I think it's safe to say the eels offer to Foran and the Titans offer to DCE is more than we can offer for both. If that is the case, they'd have to accept less to stay.
That in itself isn't necessarily the be all and end all. Other factors naturally come into it. Team mates, coach, the quality of the club etc...

So what's going to happen? I think Foran will go to the eels for big money (let's face it, players only go there for big money). DCE will stay, also for big money. Once Foran publicly declares his intentions, DCE knows there's more money for him (that's why he's in no rush to sign).

Kelly knows we need to try to keep at least one of them but if the price ends up being too high, there will be contingency plans. I think Hoppa will come back and possibly Lussick. Perhaps, Gutherson could play in the #6?

Anyway, whatever happens will happen. I've got no control over it so, I'm not worrying about it. After all the rubbish we had to go thru last year, I'm determined to just relax and enjoy this season.

As always, go the Sea Eagles!

 

[sheridanstand78]

I think you are very close the truth Daddycool. What you say looks pretty accurate. It will be an interesting month coming up.

 

[Loobs]

Here is the problem with a million per season: it's not a quantifiable number.

If their manager goes to the club and says I want 1M or 1.2M per season, the club would say why? Ben Hunt resigned for 400K per year. Reynolds $500. Now you, Mr Manager, show me how they are worth double or triple those players production on the field.

And apart from saying "that's the market", you can't. So maybe you get a stalemate. Because unless the player wants to go to a wooden spoon contender, it isn't really the market. We operate at the top of the ladder. So what do comparable halves get up there? It's not $1M per season.

 

[robbiea]

Im optimistic that Kelly is optimistic..

 

[Ryan]

One thing I DO know about BOTH of them, is even though they are currently wearing a Sea Eagles jersey, when they run out in the nines, as a paying member and fan, I'll have an apathy towards both individuals, as I'll be thinking, "do they even want to BE at our club?".

It just doesn't inspire me no matter HOW good they try and make everyone think they are.

I'd rather Jack Littlejohn, and Manaia Rudolph if they actually WANT to be here.

People can say what they want, but I think this circus is costing the club fans in their droves. Fans want a team who love each other, the club and the fans. The kissing the emblem types of players we all saw at The Rabbits last year.

We don't seem to have any of those here. The clubs lost its brotherhood culture - thanks in part to both these people. Foran and Cherry Evans have a lot of character to learn from guys like Cooper Cronk, Cameron Smith, Adam Reynolds and co. You just don't see this amount of pushing the fans away at other clubs.

I enjoyed my footy more when we were 13th, but had players running on the field with injuries, because they loved the place so much. It's called passion and heart.

 

[Ryan]

The club has a finite amount of money it can spend for both. Which means, at some point they are going to say to them "that's the most we can offer".

There are desperate clubs chasing both individually. I think it's safe to say the eels offer to Foran and the Titans offer to DCE is more than we can offer for both. If that is the case, they'd have to accept less to stay.
That in itself isn't necessarily the be all and end all. Other factors naturally come into it. Team mates, coach, the quality of the club etc...

So what's going to happen? I think Foran will go to the eels for big money (let's face it, players only go there for big money). DCE will stay, also for big money. Once Foran publicly declares his intentions, DCE knows there's more money for him (that's why he's in no rush to sign).

Kelly knows we need to try to keep at least one of them but if the price ends up being too high, there will be contingency plans. I think Hoppa will come back and possibly Lussick. Perhaps, Gutherson could play in the #6?

Anyway, whatever happens will happen. I've got no control over it so, I'm not worrying about it. After all the rubbish we had to go thru last year, I'm determined to just relax and enjoy this season.

As always, go the Sea Eagles!

But why keep both? If they aren't willing to commit, **** them off. Gutherson to centre, Lyon to 5/8, where we won a premiership 40-0. Halfback is then the problem, but I'd have no problem giving Jack Littlejohn a run, with Lyon having the ball much, much more...that could only lead to great things.

Oh, and with all that extra salary cap, I'd imagine the team around them would be VASTLY better.

 

[mjb136]

After looking at both the video clip and reading the article I am no closer to knowing an answer.

But my gut feel is I think both will stay.

 

[Ryan]

Also, if Matai wants to go, let him go FFS. Same goes for Brett Stewart. The amount of cap space would be huge. Get get guys like Hoppa back, and may mean Tom Trbojevic might get a start, who people are claiming is ready, like right now.

01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Jorge Taufua
03. Clinton Gutherson
04. Peta Hiku
05. Cheyse Blair
06. Jamie Lyon
07. Jack Littlejohn

(David Williams depth) - heck even Brayden Wiliame

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

… I'll have an apathy towards both individuals, as I'll be thinking, "do they even want to BE at our club?".

Get get guys like Hoppa back,

Brilliant Ryan.

Let's scrap players are at our club but MAYBE don't want to be here next year, and bring in players who we KNOW wanted to leave our club and actually did that and are currently committed to Parramatta.


You are right about one thing, there is a circus, but it's nothing to do with the players. It is the NRL messing with the mindset of fans, and certain fans blaming the wrong people.

 

[Ryan]

Ok, not Hoppa. Just anyone who you know, actually wants to don our jersey. Is that too much to ask? It takes all the passion and love out of the game. Don't know how long you've been a fan for.

One of my favorite ever moments as a Manly fan was when Tony Jensen ran onto the field bloody, with a broken bone, with 10 minutes to go in desperation to put in for his brothers and team mates, even though we were a TERRIBLE team in 2003.

That's what I mean mate. Passion and pride in the jersey. The blokes are just being downright selfish (which is understandable, and I get), but them I look at the way other clubs handle their situations like The Storm, The Rabbits and others - just different levels of professionalism.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Ok, not Hoppa. Just anyone who you know, actually wants to don our jersey. Is that too much to ask? It takes all the passion and love out of the game. Don't know how long you've been a fan for.

A lot longer than you.

What you really want (need, crave emotionally) is for players to commit not just to the jersey and their team mates and fans but to commit lifelong to the club no matter what contract they may ever be offered. Which is absurd and says more about your emotional dependence than it does for the alleged lack of loyalty of players.

Kieren Foran is about to embark on his 7th season of first grade for Manly and you say he's not fit to keep playing for us!

The blokes are just being downright selfish (which is understandable, and I get), but them I look at the way other clubs handle their situations like The Storm, The Rabbits and others - just different levels of professionalism.

Haha, yes the Storm were very professional in keeping their stars in place, thank you Mr Brian 'Scapegoat' Waldron. And Souths are only just beginning to experience the contract issues we've had for years, you just cannot compare. I have seen no evidence that our club has been unprofessional and no evidence that Foran and DCE are heartless mercenaries, but hey, believe what you want if it fits in with your persecution complex.

 

[swoop]

I reiterate, didn't Penn say he would offer 6.6mil over 3 years for both. That's 1.2mil per season each. I know it probably includes 3rd party payments. But how much do they want?

The "I have to look after the family line" is getting tiresome.

These days players are well looked after regarding their health, it's not like 30 years ago where players earned little and after their careers were finished where they could hardly walk because of knee problems, being knocked out regularly and so on.

They would have more than enough cash even if they were seriously injured and are probably covered by insurance.

I broke my neck 36 years ago and have been confined to a wheelchair since and it's sickening to see the amounts of money these top players get.

 

[Ryan]

A lot longer than you.

What you really want (need, crave emotionally) is for players to commit not just to the jersey and their team mates and fans but to commit lifelong to the club no matter what contract they may ever be offered. Which is absurd and says more about your emotional dependence than it does for the alleged lack of loyalty of players.

Kieren Foran is about to embark on his 7th season of first grade for Manly and you say he's not fit to keep playing for us!




Haha, yes the Storm were very professional in keeping their stars in place, thank you Mr Brian 'Scapegoat' Waldron. And Souths are only just beginning to experience the contract issues we've had for years, you just cannot compare. I have seen no evidence that our club has been unprofessional and no evidence that Foran and DCE are heartless mercenaries, but hey, believe what you want if it fits in with your persecution complex.

My comment about how long youve been a fan for related to whether you remembered that situation with Jensen. Don't take it personally.

Id ****ing LOVE to have one debate with you, just one, without you making it personal, and making a comment about me? Is that all you have in your little kitty?

Now yes, I expect passion for our brand from players. Swans call it "tthe bloods", we had it before with players taking less to remain together, but according to your royal highness, that culture is absurd. Really?

Guessing youve never played a team sport then. Having passion for each other is a major contributing factor to success, and if you think that's not the case, then you have a very unique outlook on sports.

Having players thinking they may not want to be here, is a recipe for mediocrity. You saw the results of that last year.

I wont debate this anymore with you though, because you obviously lack the conversational skills to not make it personal. I'm sorry about that, but id rather have a debate based on respect, and mutual understanding.

I dont want a playground handbag fest.

 

[sheridanstand78]

I think that one thing that some of us struggle with is that we were brought up supporting our team on the values of loyalty where you would see a kid come through the juniors to be a fully fledged first grader who stayed his whole career. We are in a different age where player managers now dictate the tune during negotiations and have the power. Back in the day Arko would sit down with a guy and it would be all about the values I mentioned and a player would re-sign.

I have read the comments before this one and there is no doubt we all want this to end and if possible retain these guys.

There has to be a line in the sand over this because if this is allowed to continue and it becomes a barter between Manly and rivals for their services its going to really harm the club and what message is it sending out to the players who are totally committed to our cause?

The bond our team has had since the NE farce has seen us rise from the ashes into a great team at its heart has been mateship, loyalty and hard work all the values we identify with. Losing players as we have over the last 2 years who loved this place like Rose , Kite and Gift in order to keep other players is a dilemma that every club faces.

I have said several times that I would like to see these players decide soon so the club can move forward.

Our club will survive one way or another

 

[master blaster]

The thing is,they dont care what we think or how we feel,they are just looking after themselves,which is fair enough,they have family,but how much do you need to keep your family happy I say,I think most of us would be happy with what they are on now,and so would our families,they would be pretty well off thats for sure,lol. Loyalty doesn't exist much anymore,and its a two way street. I dont think they realise how much us fans hurt and go through with all of this crap getting played out in the media. When something goes wrong with them,we are on the frontline sticking up for them,copping it from other team supporters,but we stick solid,and we always will, but if they leave they will have to get used to the team they go to and their fans,and its then that they will realise,they are nothing like us Manly fans,no where near as good and loyal,they wont even come close,we are second to none, MANLY4LIFE,its a given

 

[BOZO]

How long does it take to negotiate the best deal ? Their manager would have had all the offers on the table for them long ago . So what are they waiting for ?

 

[Ryan]

Because these kids are young as well, I don't think they consider what life will be like after football. Not all of them are going to get in the media.

Steve Menzies was an example in his career, and still is in my opinion. One of the classiest men both on and of the field I have ever seen.

Actually, probably my favorite player ever.