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Just a Short 2013 Intro LOL

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Technical Coach, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    The players in need of the biggest improvements over last season is the halves. Foran and DCE have stagnated and in some instances gone backwards developing bad habits dating way back into the 2011 season even though we won the GF.

    The science to our attack was deeply lacking resulting in poor decision making, rushed decision making, predictable autopilot option taking, too much finesse instead of being more direct and a general lack of planning a set of six leading up to an attacking play to create conditions conducive to a good result.

    By all accounts Andrew Johns goes beyond your normal boring attacking coach methods and develops systems in place during a set of six to stretch or draw in a defensive line so you have at least a half chance on one play and another chance off the back of the next play. By directing forwards into key areas and knowing when to use a player with good leg drive to win the tackle and work a flat play off the back of a quick play the ball or a forward with good footwork to drag in defenders and setting up an outside play etc etc.

    It's not enough for an attacking coach to just say “hold the ball back like this and you will create openings” or “play more straight your running too sideways cramping your outside backs” some gifted players in the past actually don't understand the science, art or reasoning why their methods actually worked and are useless in the coaching dept.

    Understanding why a certain body position at point of delivery works better than others or why stepping early in some instances will help draw the outside defensive slide back in before release or making sure you have effective options on your inside hip not just lazy runners etc etc the list goes on and on.

    One of our main problems last year and previous seasons was playing at high intensity winning the early exchanges but not turning this into points leading to frustration and a forward pack that felt their hard efforts in these periods were not being rewarded on the score board. If your attack is lacking that clinical edge eventually you start taking more risks leading to more mistakes and losing field position which then leads into lower possession rates and higher defensive loads---it has been a pattern to our play for a few seasons.

    Tooves has shown enough in his first year that he understands the issues we have with our attack addressing a few simple areas around being more sharp and direct around dummy half with our go forward. You can also see he is wanting more mobility and more explosive straight running forwards and is trying to inject some youth in our forward line to maintain the intensity for longer periods(we tend to drop intensity real fast when things are not going our way)---overall he is trying to sharpen us up all over the park.

    My main concern with Tooves is not his League knowledge but his mere presence does not appear to command respect from an outsider looking in based on the actions and media talk from some players during last season and this off season. Some coaches have all the knowledge but lack that aura about them which is able to make their ideas sink in to the players belief systems.

    Time will tell in the end and I really do hope my initial gut feelings are wrong because I see a lot to like in his knowledge of the game.
     
  2. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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  3. manlyfan76

    manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Is TC actually Paul 'the fat man' Vautin?
    Jokes aside nice read though and I'm sure that Joey's presence will help the halves and the club. The injection of young uns should be good for enthusiasm as much as anything they bring ability wise.
     
  4. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    I always enjoy TC's analysis.
     
  5. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Man, I love your well thought out and objective posts mate. Please post more. As I said last season, a great team (as we are), cannot just go out, and do exactly the same as what we did the season before, and just automatically be dominant.

    A coach has to be innovative, fresh and new in his approach. Hard work alone, doesn't get the job done, because every team works hard.

    I too thought last season was far too much "auto pilot" stuff, relying on the big game players to play big time roles. BUT, that for mine meant opposition players and coaches tended to work out our good players strategies and abilities, and they countered that. Therefore, and in my opinion, that why we saw players like Glenn Stewart (and to a lesser degree Kieran Foran) having very poor seasons, and what I thought very little time with the ball.

    I'll be watching on intently this year to see what new things Toovey has brought to the table.

    Another area we need to really focus on, is commitment in defence. Ok, there were "periods" last season where our defense was outstanding (lets be fair), but there were also periods, where we were calved apart, and we were blown open, like I haven't seen for a long time with our team. Not only our commitment in defense though - but our consistency needs to improve. There needs to be more accountability for players who screw up.

    But, your right in your post in my opinion, we cannot play on auto pilot, and think just hard work will get the job done. This team needs something new, that will keep us ahead of the opposition. The roster is there, but is the coaching smarts?
     
  6. Hamster Huey

    Hamster Huey Space Invader Premium Member

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    Perhaps a little early to see the 'aura' come out publicly as even the likes of Bellamy, Hasler and Bennett were never talked up in their first few years, as they were many years later.

    One very good sign though is that the new recruits are still talking the culture up in comparison to their previous clubs, indicating that the staff and playing group are still very positive towards what Toovey is doing.

    Last year was most definitely a tough one for the coach and staff, left to pick up the pieces at short notice. No doubt Tooves was left to use a few of the old tricks just to get things moving. With a full season and now a genuine off-season of preparation, including the move to strengthen the coaching staff around him, I believe we're going to see a few surprises.

    It would be easy to judge Toovey harshly and hedge our bets on his results (over-performs, happily surprised; struggles, feel good about calling it out earlier). But I myself am not seeing or hearing anything of concern on Tooves' work with the staff and players, so it's all good to me.
     
  7. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    So do I but sometimes when I see his posts I can't bring myself to look at them for a couple of days, just too daunting in their volume. I generally read them eventually though.


    As for this bit …
    ... I don't get that at all. Tooves is a different style of man to Hasler, who played the eccentric guru to perfection, but from what I've seen he's held in high regard by the players and rightly so. Ryan is clearly thrilled to have someone else voicing their doubts. That won't bother Toovey, who watched Hasler get hammered by fans for years for his perceived shortcomings until suddenly one day everyone realised he was a master coach.
     
  8. MK Eagle

    MK Eagle Well-Known Member

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    In a nutshell TC the lack of direct attack & quick plays probably didnt help the halves who at times were caught out by a rushing opposition defence due to that roll on effect lacking.
    Really think the platform layed by Hoppa in 2011 was a huge dent & also Wolf to a lessor extent, both were missed more than most realise.
    Personally thought DCE though not as outstanding in 2012, at times showed his teammates to go foward & defied his small stature to go direct, not throwing a worried pass to a man in a worse position.
    These aggressive types like Fa'asso/Horo will add that missing steel in the ruck area in 2013 & though are not superstar names will compliment that go foward style lacking in 2012 & in doing so, benefit the young halves imo.
     
  9. bones

    bones Bones Knows Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Maybe we need more carves blood. :p
     
  10. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    To me personally "held in high regard" is not in the same league as having that something a little extra where your mere presence alone commands attention and maintains discipline without a word needing to be uttered.

    I also stated it's too early to say at the moment and these characteristics do come together with time in the majority of cases, even Hasler had his issues early on.(i had my doubts in relation to this issue before last season started also)

    But to balance the above there is not just one style of coaching that works and it seems in some ways Tooves is more organized in the sense he is able to delegate responsibility better and is more open to different ideas from other people always keeping his mind open and being able to adapt.

    A coach does not have to have all the answers/ideas just choose the right ones more often than not from any source, a great mind is capable of filtering the crap and using what is required.

    To be honest and fair Ryan the Auto Pilot plays were evident way too often even in Haslers tenure this has nothing to do with Toovey at all. Last year was more about Tooves making small changes and coming to grips with his role to lay the platform down for the next few years while trying to maintain a competitive outfit which he did and under a short time frame.
    [hr]
    Our play the ball speeds,sharpness and direct flat go forward around the play the ball actually improved in some respects last year.

    Losing intensity after winning the early exchanges through high intensity and not scoring points when it mattered killed us. Frustration leading to risk taking and more mistakes, losing field position and time in possession would then start to fatigue our aging big forwards and we did not have the depth, explosiveness, sharpness, mobility and youth in the forward rotation off the bench to sustain the intensity.

    DCE last year over-used the short side, it really was his only big play where he played flat and at speed after a fast play the ball and even at times when it was a slow play the ball. When it came together he invariably got man of the match but when it didn't he lacked any other ideas and looked lost.

    DCE needs to be more creative up the middle and either side of the posts, sometimes playing through the line like at times in 2011---i don't believe it had anything to do with quick play the balls if your comparing his performances to last year(2011) but yes in general halves will dominate more with a defensive line going backwards and a rolling forward pack which we still have to improve.
     
  11. WESTIE

    WESTIE Well-Known Member

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    Fork me.....why cant Toovey see what you guys see ? Maybe because he wasn't able to go back to back , he needs to be given the punt eh ?? With such experts on this message board, Toovey must be nervous as hell about his coaching future from about mid 2013.....better get those resumes ready " experts " !!!! Some of you are obviously in the wrong professions - LOL....No team has gone back to back and the bloke took us to 1 game away from the GF- with the world club challenge, player poaching and knowing he couldn't better 2011 - what do you guys expect ? No even desdemona or the great Bozo could go back to back
     
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  12. MK Eagle

    MK Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Ya kidding me TC - the start to each set on the back of Hoppa/Wolf in 2011, who won 90% of play the balls & done hitups 1 & 3 in every set (33%) laid a massive platform of go foward.
    Taufua had a super breakout year on the wing but was sloppy/slow playing the ball with Whare/Oldfield having minimal impact in comparison.
    This contribution has a massive effect on how the halves play & I can guarantee if both a fit Wolf & Hoppa were there last season you would define this factor.
     
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  13. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with you that losing our wingers will and did have an affect on our go forward but there are many teams with less quality wingers and are able to maintain good go forward over longer periods. Lets not get into exaggerating the facts, no player in the history of the game wins 90% of the play the balls you would be more than happy with 50% on a good day.

    Attacking 20m out and not even looking dangerous or running decent decoys with good structure and good lines especially after a repeat set has zero to do with go forward.

    I never stated our go forward does not need to improve i stated in many respects especially around the ruck some nice flat clean quick delivery was evident. A combination of other teams defences playing at a higher intensity in 2012 while we did not improve as much to compensate for the rise was a major factor also. The introduction of new forward blood and spark around the ruck is a direct result of the above and good recruitment.

    Improving our attack will see Manly go a long way in this premiership if we have luck with injuries like all squads, if our attack does not improve it will be the same kind of year---one of the reasons why i think Tooves very early on wanted Johns he could see we are not taking advantage of our dominant periods in the game with points.
     
  14. Hamster Huey

    Hamster Huey Space Invader Premium Member

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    And it is this which means I have no concern about his 'aura'.

    Tooves has managed to pin down a Knights legend for exclusive usage by the club. To convince Joey to do this must be a massive wrap for the manner in which he's conducting himself as the head coach.

    Then consider how the players would feel about such a high profile recruit off the field, and it all bodes well even if we don't hear the 'Des, Des, Des' mantra we've been subjected to previously through the media.
     
  15. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    TC one side effect of the massive influx of new blood this season is that it will help speed up the transition for Tooves. Now a large number of new faces will be getting to know him for the first time as the undisputed boss.

    I've spoken with Tooves a couple of times and also witnessed his interactions with senior players and I don't see any problem there at all.

    It takes time for any coach to build an 'aura'. The only ingredient missing is a record of consistent winning, and, with the squad we've got, I predict Tooves 'aura' will be glowing a bit brighter by season's end.
     
  16. Jatz Crackers

    Jatz Crackers Moderator Staff Member

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    Any team who faces cattle with explosives is going to find it tough going.
     
  17. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    100% agree the new influx will help in this area in the same way companies inject new staff to change or reinvigorate a culture or for bosses to either re-establish control or inject some healthy competition to established staff.

    Nathan Brown at the Dragons struggled to get the balance right and was too close to the senior playing group in terms of time out of the game and friendship wise to establish himself as an authority figure, Brown also has a good Rugby League brain.

    Don't get me wrong i fully understand it takes time to build your own presence and "Aura" about yourself(i don't expect overnight miracles) but too often last season players made comments that suggested he was either not tough enough, some comments were overly confident or lazy she will be right attitude, other comments gave the impression that the promotions dept had too much input.(too many feel good or pump the fans up comments)

    This is one area Des established control over and already this season the silly comments are being made but it's understandable in the pre season to generate interest, i just personally hate them being made.

    Interactions with players can mean many things, getting on with players and having a joke is not always a good thing but i'm sure your comment is more in the serious nature of working professionally.

    The good coaches even the ones lacking the technical knowledge of the game establish clear boundaries between themselves and the players which helps with man management and discipline.

    I'm not knocking Tooves as i think in many ways he has a better footy brain than Des, i just feel his man management skills need to toughen up a little more.
     
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  18. Mals

    Mals Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Hilarious!
     
  19. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    This addresses everyone's concerns :angel:

    http://www.seaeagles.com.au/news-display/Sea-Eagles-charge-into-2013/67080

    As the background music says 'This time I'm gonna be stronger,I'm not giving in':exclamation:

    The Boys are putting in, ready for the 2013 Premiership :heart:

    Fantastic music and lyrics !!!
    --------------------------
    Rudimental Not Giving In

    Lost my heart
    And lost my soul
    Now it's time
    Baby, oh no

    Lost my mind
    And lost my goal

    Oh, not giving in
    I'm not giving in
    Not giving in
    Woh, I'm not giving in

    Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh

    This time, I'm gonna be stronger
    I'm not giving in

    Waste my time...
    Lost, and now my love is cursed
    Time to make these things feel right
    Oh, let's start this show
    Let's shine this time

    Oh, I'm not giving in
    Not giving in
    Not giving in
    Not this time
    Not gonna give in

    Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh
    Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh

    This time, I'm gonna be stronger
    I'm not giving in

    Nooo
    Not giving in
    Not giving in
    I'm gonna be stronger
    I'm gonna be stronger

    This time...
     
  20. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    Inspirational video. Well done to the PR team.
    Glad I'm just a spectator.
     

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