Interesting message from the Leagues Club

[swoop]

Vidmar is showing his naivety.  Mark from Brisbane must have passed him the sandwich plate.

You seem to like taking potshots at a few people on here and other forums, but you don't come up with any alternatives.

I'm sick of getting fed bull**** from both factions and I trust neither party. But a lot of posters have taken sides either pro-Scott or pro-Max without knowing the full story.

I get the opinion that you are pro-Scott and bag Delmege at every opportunity you get.

The other day you claimed the FC board members were old foggies just there for the "lurks & perks" and you were going to do something about it. You inferred you had nominees for the board but you couldn't reveal who the candidates were. Is it still going to happen?

 

[vidmar]

Quote: Vidmar is showing his naivety.  Mark from Brisbane must have passed him the sandwich plate.

Reply: Ah, here’s Andrew giving his well thought out reply to my previous questions on this thread and his masterplan to save us all and our team!
Be a sweetie and go and play nicely with your little friends and let the grown ups talk please little mate?

Pete: Agree, Grant’s position was untenable and he was doing it tough but due most probably due to the bickering between owners who were using him for political gain.
It was of course a complete nonsense and contrary to the wishes of many (myself included)

I understand there have been a number of people trying all sorts of initiatives to help resolve the situation (I’m mindful of the lazy journalists reading this looking for a story) without success unfortunately and agree with Grant’s statement that “ego’s” forced him out.

I had an email from him on the morning that he resigned as I’d emailed him to ask if there was any truth in the rumours that had started to appear on forums that he was going to Parra or leaving – I quote part of his reply ”All will become clearer in the near future. Rest assured I am not going to parra or Cronulla.” So would be surprised if he fronted up there...I do know he had a tap on the shoulder earlier from another NRL club but declined the offer.

In all honesty he’s a smart operator, has come out of this debacle with dignity and should do what all good politicians do – get out of the bear pit and head to the corporate world for a lot less hassle and a bag more money and be content to stand on the Hill with his boys and enjoy this great sport we follow as a supporter.

I wait with interest to see who will get the gig....we deserve the best and GM will be hard act to follow....

Cliffy: You were at the Gold Coast, Did you quiz the board members who were there? I did, at length and didn’t hold back until I got the answers I wanted.

I sat with Grant and Zorba at Breakfast at the Crowne Plaza and quizzed tehm both about the reports coming from Sydney about comments made on TV the previous night and you are correct – he did get the phone call telling him not to bother presenting the business plan BUT that call came with no backing from the board (FACT) and caused all manner of huddled discussions between GM and members of the FC board who were there.

Grant was rightly (and visibly) fired up as he and his staff had put a lot of time and effort in to getting it just right (including the staff heading off-site to the Hunter to avoid any distractions) I too would say “stick it” in the same situation?

Not good, but the board reps from the FC and the Leagues had made it clear that they would abstain from any more voting on his future once a plan was delivered that made sense and was in the best interest of the club – Sensible corporate governance dictates that if you are going to vote for something you understand what you are agreeing with – different from voting against a person or not showing him support....no?

I am mindful that we will have lazy journos reading this so am sticking to the key facts that are reasonably well known and in the main to trying to update people who may not be aware of them and as mentioned are sick of the BS that is being spouted by both sides.

Meanwhile...back to the original post....How good is it that the Leagues Club have been such a good supporter of our team and are committed to being again in the years to come....I may have a few extra beers there after the win tomorrow so they can lob a few more dollars in my teams direction.

GO YOU MIGHTY EAGLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Corso_Pete]

Vidmar is showing his naivety.  Mark from Brisbane must have passed him the sandwich plate.

Do I not recall yourself indulging yourself at the plate of sandwiches (& probably prawns & oysters) has a guest of the Penns' during 2008?

 

[byso]

Methinks Mata received far more than a few prawns from the Penns.

 

[Matabele]

[quote author=Matabele link=topic=180798.msg228412#msg228412 date=1245465823]
Vidmar is showing his naivety.  Mark from Brisbane must have passed him the sandwich plate.

Do I not recall yourself indulging yourself at the plate of sandwiches (& probably prawns & oysters) has a guest of the Penns' during 2008?
[/quote] 2006.  No prawns involved. 

 

[Ryan]

Vid - I always respect your opinion, but would like to answer as below, with some facts you may NOT know about:-

I introduced Pat Wilson, Bob Reilly and co. to NAB'S senior Marketing and Sponsorship manager, with a view to become a major sponsor. Hence to say the sales pitch was not up to speed, and NAB decided on not proceeding, suggesting that their sales pitch was frankly, really poor. None of the board, nor club thanked me for providing them with an opportunity in this, and I was the one that had to actually submit a "powerful reason to buy" to Nab in the 1st place to get them there (which Mata & Wheel admitedly had a major hand in creating - so don't suggest they don't do tangible things to help the club either people).

Next thing you know, there was a transition in CEO, and Grant Mayer came into the chair. One of the 1st things he did, was to get on the phone personally to me, and to thank me for the opportunity, and being the man he is, asked that when The Rabbits sponsorship finish, would we be able to give Nab the opportunity to look at Sponsoring the Eagles once again. In fact, he asked if we could look at sponsoring the Eagles under 20's, as well as The Rabbits 1st grade side (he always had Manly's interests at heart).

I then started and created a petition, that ended up with almost 10,000 signatures on it for the upgrade of Brookvale Oval. This petition (after being bound, after looking professional, was given to the club - including Sibraa, Spray and co.). Once AGAIN, I received not one iota of thanks from the current board (although they were the one in receipt of it). Once AGAIN, Grant Mayer phoned, and thank me until the cows came home - asking if he could provide (from his OWN pocket) tickets etc for Wheel, me and the boys who participated.

Frankly, from my point of view, the board (as current), are selfish, rude, ignorant and lazy (with their own - including Max's) little agenda's spewing forth. It's not about what is best for the club, it's what about is best for these greedy swines - examples shown above.

Grant has asked me for coffee on a number of occassions. The board members, frankly wouldn't know or give a stuff about who I am.

And don't use the excuse that they are different entities. Don't be so naive as to think the club wouldn't get a tangible benefit from on upgrade of Brookvale Oval. They wouldn't benefit from a Major Sponsorship of a stable large corporate like Nab. That latter not so much, but if you think stability, ability to be able to offer more, potentially allowing the club to offer less - etc etc.

What I DO know, is that the board prior to Grant Mayer signed off on a number of games on The Central Coast, as they did not envision our potential success as it currently is, and they were worried that crowd numbers would be right down. What I do know, is that Grant told me himself about his frustration in this, as he wanted all home games, at home. He wanted the season ticket holders to get more bang for their buck. He wasn't happy at that decision making process.

There is another story I could tell, about what one of the board do when others in competition to their business, that would blow your socks off (I have told some of you privately) - and these are the people we are having to deal with? The blokes who hang around Benny Elia's? Not everything is as it seems on face value.

I'm sorry Vid mate. Because you have sat down with these people, and know them personally, shouldn't mean you should be star struck. They are inefficient, and there is always 2 sides to any story. Our club was floundering until,

1. Revenue was up by 30%
2. Merchandise sales tripled
3. Membership tripled
4. Season ticket holders increased

all under Grant Mayer.

Rumor has it Max is looking to get involved in The Sharks because of his ability to sink his fingers into the development involved there. In my point of view, that can't happen soon enough. And he can take his arrogant, non-thankful board members with him.

Note - this is not about me wanting thanks, it's about a board that doesn't know how to deal with the common public with courtesy, and make short handed decisions, that hurt the club in the long run (Central Coast as example).

For these reasons, and more Vid, I think I have a right to critique them. Also, if they are the actual League's club board - why is the League's club in so much trouble? They need an investor to come in and pay Bank Debt, or they become insolvent? These are the great mates you want making decisions about The Sea Eagles. Far out mate.

I could say more about Reilly, and his affiliation with a person who ran for council, but will leave that out of this.

 

[Matabele]

Well said Ryan.

 

[Ryan]

A few spelling / grammar issues, but hopefully people get the vibe - LoL  

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Ryan at least you articulate yourself and offer an intellectual view on matters, sometimes I may think differently to you BUT always value your opinion.

Cliffy, come on mate was I having a go at you????.....never....I may not agree 110% with what you are doing / saying BUT one could NEVER EVER doubt your passion....my comments were not aimed at you, I know how you love the Eagles and I applaud your committment and I am surprised that you thought otherwise!!!!

Mata's....I have said this before but gee's I reckon you need counselling and quickly.....your only valued response to any of these items are one line "shots". It's ever so easy (isn't it) to take one line pot shots at people who have ideas or offer an alternative view to yours....you seem like quite an intellectual so it's dissapointing to see you stoop to just taking pots shots rather than offering alternate views.

As I have said (many times) before I don't just read the Telegrapgh, the Manly Daily and the SMH to make my opinion.

I take the time to talk to the people involved.

I have had (many) lengthy discussions with Grant Mayer, even as late as a week ago regarding this subject.


I have also had a number of discussions with Scott Penn.


And a number of discussions with the three other people on the board, and as recently as this weekend.

I will admit to having met the Delmeges but never discussing their side of this.

So Bullsh*t or no Bullsh*t after 35 years in business and 45 years of being a supporter I think I can smell the difference between poo and roses, and I would hope that you all would at least give me the cerdit for that!!!!

 

[Matabele]

Mark, you really ought to declare your conflict of interest in these discussions.  You rely on the good graces of many of these people, particularly the Leagues Club, for your supporter tours to be successful. 

 

[byso]

Mata, your gall is astonishing.  "conflict of interest" please

 

[vidmar]

Matabele, If you're trying to portray yourself as clueless, bitter and a knob - congratulations - Mission accomplished.

The Leagues club have nothing to do with Mark's tours - it was an initiative set up by Grant, Aaron Markie and Mark.

I know the amount of work he puts in to these things and it's fair to say it a labour of love for Mark rather than an earner.

In real terms the financial return he gets for the considerable work he puts in is negligable but ask anyone that has been part of the tours and they will tell you how much they have enjoyed them and how much they respect his efforts.

Yet again, credit where due but yet again you ignore the facts and prefer to snipe.

Are you the same person that came crying to me at Brissie this year pleading for me to help you get in to Bay 317 with us as the locals were going to lynch you?

Seems you are fine to take the piss via the internet but face to face when it can bite you back doesn't seem to be something that you are comfortable with or are able to deal with?

You really do need to get a life you like....


Ryan, Good post and thanks for your reply which was articulate, crtical but well intentioned - it makes for interesting reading (if not disappointing in some parts of course).

I’m always open to listening to people that have a story to tell but more importantly to people who are well intentioned, passionate and pro-active.

I fully agree that there are a number of areas that the various entities can improve upon and the more (qualified and well meaning) people that can assist and put their hand to the wheel the better (No pun intended Geoff?)

Unless we are presented with alternatives then we need to work with what we have got.

I’m surprised at the lack of positive feedback or support that you have received for your past endeavours (to be fair I’d need to follow up on that and put the question to the people concerned to get their input?) but agree, on the face of it this does sounds very poor.

Your experience and involvement understandably shed the board in a poor light and fully understand why you hold them in little regard.

My experiences are somewhat different so we will, of course, have different opinions which is understandable at the moment

I’m certainly not star struck or blind to the problems faced by the club or the lack of efficiencies or a number of skill sets across the board which is why I’m getting more involved and I’m encouraging others to do the same.

Your post shows that you have a brain and the wherewithal to do things on your own initiative – For the club to grow and be successful it needs to encourage involvement from people like you and others who have these qualities and the more like-minded people the better?

It’s obvious that you are passionate about our club and I respect your right to critique (which you did well and supported with facts) but I also applaud your obvious efforts to put your hand up to help as and where you can.

Can I make a suggestion? Would you be prepared to meet with Bob Reilly and explain your experiences and give whatever ideas, suggestions or initiatives that you think would help?

We are critical of the board for their infighting and bickering so I think it would be a great initiative for supporters such as you and I to set an example primarily to demonstrate that there may be history, we may have issues that need to be resolved but as we all have the best interests of the club and the team at heart we are willing to try to resolve differences and work together to drive improvements?

Your thoughts?
Cheers
Vidmar

 

[Matabele]

Because I actually have a reasonable amount of respect for you vidmar (overlooking recent insults) I've gone against a recent resolution to not get involved in endless debates to share are my thoughts on the issue. 

I'm addressing the stance taken by Reilly and cohorts in various letters that have been thinly disguised propaganda (and at times erroneous) as well as things that I know have been mentioned in one on one conversations. 

And I will add that I believe the best purpose of an extraordinary members meeting would be to see if the things Reilly and friends say behind closed doors would be said in a forum where they would be held accountable for their assertions and allegations and where they could be challenged.

Reilly has said:
There has been no vote on Grant's tenure in the job or adoption of business plan

No kidding.  It doesn't take a vote for a CEO to know the board are maneouvering for his ousting.  The FC members helped to render his position untenable from the moment they sided with Delmege to not extend his contract at the start of the year, as several others have alluded to already.  I will address my understanding of their reasons for doing so later.

- Football Club has taken a stance that they will not vote on any issues until Delmege/Penn have gone through a mediation process to resolve their issues

If this is the case, why have they consistently sided with the Delmege camp on the issue of Mayer's tenure in both the 5/2 vote on extending his contract as well as in various letters to members?  They may have taken that stance, but their actions and public comments, and letters indicate their mind was already made up.

- A lot of what is being aired within the media has been leaked from management, not Penn/Delmege.  Reilly has said to several people that Zorba is the source of the leak and the false information being provided and what is being reported.

  On this issue I think we should accept all people involved have been nearly as culpable as each other.  Delmege/Penn/Zorba/Mayer/Sibraa have all been guilty of indiscretion and it has been a grubby affair.  However, on balance I would suggest there have been several instances where Delmege has been found to be lying  - eg when he said he'd paid his share of funds before presenting a cheque a few days later only because of the media pressure. 

If you go back to the letter Reilly wrote to members in March, there is some misleading nonsense there, none more so than the Central Coast conspiracy theory where Reilly later had his pants pulled down when it was found out the FC and Leagues Club had voted to take further games to the CC over the next 3 years.  It beggars belief that the Leagues Club would vote this way given a Manly home game represents their 12 largest revenue days of the year.  Why would they vote to send two of those to Gosford? 

- Reilly has ackowledged that the football club was using their maneuverings vis a vis Mayer to gain more influence over the club and that the management had basically sidelined their role and also severley affected their ability to raise funds via membership etc.  He has alleged to people in his one on ones that Mayer is anti the football/leagues club and if they have to force a change of management to get a 'better relationship' (as per Paul Cummings time) they will.  This they have now done by making Mayer's position untenable, at a critical part of the season where our on-season fortunes hang in the balance and off the field we're trying to re-sign key players.

Surely in the course of various conversations Mark from Brisbane I include you in this) you must have come across this critical piece of information.  There was an exchange between Manly Club management and the Football Club where the FC clearly suggested they did not require the resources of Manly to drive the membership process, that they would utilise the resources of the Leagues Club instead.  So Reilly's assertion that Mayer has an agenda against FC membership is likely erroneous.  However, the FC club should not have been surprised with the Screaming Eagles packages coming out as they did because all privatised club going forward will rely on increasing membership to be financially viable.  It would be illogical for the Manly Club to not include some kind of membership package with season ticket packages? 

This is drawing a long bow admittedly, and I have nothing to substantiate it - but I'm putting together a few pieces. Originally Phillip Deans was responsible for the membership packages with Manly, but he was sacked (or more kindly "made redundant") by Wilson.  Deans has never really gotten over this and when the issue of the FC membership packages being tied to FC club packages was on the table the FC played hard ball because they believed Deans would be able to drive their membership packages.  In fact the FC was sold a pup as history shows.  Membership has seriously dwindled and the FC is sidelined.  This however is not Mayer's fault, it is because of the decisions made by the FC itself. 

- Reilly has stated he believed that the football club/leagues club has a genuine right to be more involved in the direction of the club becasue the Leagues club has contributed $4.8 million to the team since privatisation which was more than Scott Penn has provided.

There are several things wrong with this assumption once you dig into it.  First, Reilly is confusing his roles.  When it comes to his vote on the Manly Board, the FC members should represent FC interests, not Leagues clubs interests.  As Reilly is intimately involved with the Leagues Club (as his letter shows) it appears he's not able to achieve this distinction.  You've seen several posters here have pointed out the absurdity of Reilly's Leagues/FC club posturing?

Second, the FC members voted to accept Penn's money in return for a share of the club.  If they have issues with Penn's contribution as opposed to the Leagues Club, then they should be pointing the bone at themselves, not Penn.  The same goes for Delmege having issues with how much Penn paid. 

Thirdly, this whole kerfuffle began with a comment that all parties at the table of the Manly Board should be contributing to losses according to their equity share.  Clearly this is impossible for the FC Club.  At that point Delmege was significantly in arrears and it was putting the entire club at risk.  These days it's highly unlikely that the Leagues Club could contribute according to its equity to. 

It's perhaps the most important issue going forward for the club.  Because if the FC club and Leagues club continue to throw their weight around without the ability to put their money where their mouth is, then one or both of the monied parties (and there is a lot of speculation Delmege is not as monied as people would like to think) will walk away and there will be no club to protect.

Finally, when it comes to the Leagues club's contribution to Manly, as others have suggested, it has been foolish and shortsighted to "donate" so much funds as is indicated in Reilly's letter  ($30m of $25m profits?)  All this has done is bleed the club white and has prevented renewal to the point where in recent months we've seen Penn has actually had to intervene to save the Leagues club from itself.  It would have been far more pragmatic to only contribute 50% of profits and retain 50% for business renewal I would have thought. 


In summary, Reilly has gotten away with telling a lot of people that Mayer/Penn are trying to relocate the club and/or destabilise the FC operations.  Chief amongst his gripes has been that the Screaming Eagles packages have proven to be far more poplar than the FC package, which really is a $35pa donation to a closed shop. 

My opinion is that this is a narrow and pedantic view.  Damn the good Mayer has done the club, damn the Premiership won, the stability he's bought and the millions in sponsorship he has obtained.  Reilly, Sibraa and Deans have said - "let's hang him because we can't sell our memberships despite the fact we contributed to that failure by suggesting we did not require Mayer's services and resources to assist us.

As for my idea on where to from here, that can wait for another day. 

 

[byso]

IMO a big reason why the memberships grew so much is due to the FC memberships campaign by the NRL using Matty Johns, it was very opportunistic for Mayer to offer Screaming eagles membership instead.

This is quite misleading considering Manly supporters not in the know would be expecting to be FC members when they contact the football club or Website. To become members only in turn become screaming eagles members which offers a few goodies but no say in the club.

Hence the reason why bugger all people are now FC members.

 

[Matabele]

IMO a big reason why the memberships grew so much is due to the FC memberships campaign by the NRL using Matty Johns, it was very opportunistic for Mayer to offer Screaming eagles membership instead.

This is quite misleading considering Manly supporters not in the know would be expecting to be FC members when they contact the football club or Website. To become members only in turn become screaming eagles members which offers a few goodies but no say in the club.

Hence the reason why bugger all people are now FC members.

  I don't disagree with you Byso, the current situation is laughable.  Sensibly the FC should have relinquished a little of their control over memberships and allowed the whole shebang to be in one package.  They didn't, it isn't and Manly is the weaker for it.

Perhaps I should summarise what I have said above as thus:

I believe the FC representatives on the Manly Board have been guilty of giving priority to the interests of the FC over the holistic needs of Manly in general.

 

[Cameron]

IMO a big reason why the memberships grew so much is due to the FC memberships campaign by the NRL using Matty Johns, it was very opportunistic for Mayer to offer Screaming eagles membership instead.

This is quite misleading considering Manly supporters not in the know would be expecting to be FC members when they contact the football club or Website. To become members only in turn become screaming eagles members which offers a few goodies but no say in the club.

Hence the reason why bugger all people are now FC members.

byso
there was signifcant growth in numbers last season.
also the club had wat was a record week at the time in december after mayer was on tv challenging fans to join.

screaming eagles has contributed approx 5 mil in 3 seasons as ive said on here and to bob reilly going forward FC membership needs to be included with adult screaming eagle packages

 

[Matabele]

as ive said on here and to bob reilly going forward FC membership needs to be included with adult screaming eagle packages

  Damned straight they should.  But will they?

 

[The Wheel]

Agree re combining screaming eagles/footy club and I sent an email to that effect to Bob a few weeks back.

 

[Corso_Pete]

I don't disagree with you Byso, the current situation is laughable.  Sensibly the FC should have relinquished a little of their control over memberships and allowed the whole shebang to be in one package.  They didn't, it isn't and Manly is the weaker for it.

Perhaps I should summarise what I have said above as thus:

I believe the FC representatives on the Manly Board have been guilty of giving priority to the interests of the FC over the holistic needs of Manly in general.

Why the constant referral to the "2 FC representatives" on the Manly board. Is there a view that they are not representing the majority view of the FC  Board? If not, and I strongly doubt that this would be the case then sureley we need to be questioning not just Deans & O'Reilly but ALL FC Board Members.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Interesting indeed to hear a lot of this stuff, I expect i'm not the only one who has been ignorant of a lot of the backgound machinations.

As for my idea on where to from here, that can wait for another day. 

Don't leave it too long, now might be good time to hear all ideas for the future.