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Important Questions Going Forward

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Ryan, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    (For me anyways :p)

    Guys, been thinking about heaps of Sea Eagles stuff going forward,
    and wondered what peoples thought's are on the following (apologies in advance for the
    length):-

    1. We have a really talented core group of young forwards / prospects as well as veterans
    at our club, and they include King, Kite, Galuvao, Watmough, Stewart, Williams, Buhrer,
    Rose, Lussick, Mauro, Robinson, Harrison, Cunningham, Stormqvist, with only so many
    positions available (I'm sure I've missed a few). I'd be very concerned at the prospect
    of losing some up and comers like Lussick, Cunningham, Buhrer etc. What do you think
    Tooves should do with the forwards. I reckon he may have a slightly different coaching
    style to Dessie. Do you think a rotational system would/should work? Do you think we stick
    with the best players available at the time based on experience, and let the young guys
    tough it out in the NSW Cup?

    2. For a long time, I've been very concerned about our strong depth on the wing. What I mean
    by that, is that I always thought we'd lose a winger or two due to the strong depth and quality we have.
    Losing Robbo and Hopoate helps alleviate that some what. What do you think our depth chart looks
    like on the wing, if you consider Lyon / Matai the shoe in's for the centre position. The reason I say this,
    is because I think we still have awesome talent in Whare, and think the start of 2012 could be his year,
    if Wolfman is injured?

    3. I wondered what peoples thoughts were on "what it actually is about Manly Sea Eagles, that makes
    decent footy players, great ones"? You look over time at guys like Hall, Rose, Bryant & co. I really
    hope that whatever system we have in place that makes this happen, Tooves can institute (or continue)
    as well. Anyone know what that secret ingredient is?

    4. With Andrew Johns (focusing on The Warriors), and Dessie moving on, we are losing a lot of experience
    and mentoring skill in the halves. I know we still will have Tooves, but what do people think we should do
    in relation to this scenario. Does everyone think we could survive with Foran / DCE learning from the game time
    experiences and Tooves, or do you all think we should bring someone else in? (Cliffy Lyons would be ideal
    in my opinion).

    5. What do you guys think about this. If / when the funding for Brooky is approved, I'd love to book myself a
    season ticket in advance, and provide a holding fee. I'd do this to provide our club with capital, and selfishly
    grab the seat I want (high up hill side) would be best - I dread that Sunday afternoon sun !

    6. Junior grades. I think we have a real systemic problem with our lower grades, and particularly the funding afforded
    to those arenas. I know the NSWRL threatened to pull all of our grades if we continued our association with
    The Sunshine Coast Sea Eagles. My theory on this, is that if we continue to be so dreadful, would it not be better
    to have our juniors going through the QLD Cup lower grades? I really think that competition has done wonders
    for some of our current players (Lussick / DCE / Williams). Saves us money. Makes our lower gardes more competitive.

    7. Captaincy. I love Kingy, but I personally believe he would benefit from focussing on remaining healthy, and remaining
    a senior player and mentor. I'd love for Manly to appoint Jamie Lyon as full time captain. He does it extremely well.
    Thoughts?

    Cheers guys. [hr]
    Weird. Apologies for the spacing....
     
  2. Brookie

    Brookie Well-Known Member

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    1. yes
    2. yes
    3. winning culture
    4. cliffy
    5. maybe
    6. no
    7. killer
     
  3. the mauler

    the mauler Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    On your point about Joey, ul find hel still be working with our halves as well. He's a consultant for a few clubs, and can't see why he wouldn't be continuing his work with manly.
     
  4. WAMF

    WAMF Well-Known Member

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    Glad to be talking footy Ryan.

    1)Bhurer has re-signed for 3 yrs.

    2)Wing could be slimish pickings with injuries. We have Oldie, Farrar and Whare ready to go and hopefully Wolfman makes a full recovery at some point during the season.

    3) All the players you mention simply didn't have systemic errors in their game. We seem to turn plodders that can hold the ball, in to reliable players that get the job done week in week out.

    4) It's quite feasible that Tooves is already the main halves mentor? Sure it's not great that Joey is not around to provide tips but Foran/DCE will be part of rep teams that will allow them to further develop their skill set at the highest level.

    5) Although season tickets won't help my cause, I will be there for the grand opening of the new stadium.

    6) Penn has announced that Manly's Lower grades will be getting a financial boost from next season. This is sure to assist with the recruitment of higher quality players/coaches.

    7) Agree with your thoughts on the captaincy. Lyon should be the captain allowing Kingy to focus on his game. It's also preferable to have the captain playing the full 80 mins.
     
  5. Earnie the Eagle

    Earnie the Eagle Well-Known Member

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    You are quite right about our wing positions, losing Robbo is huge, I mean really HUGE, probably more so than Hoppa.

    I think this will be our Achilles heal in 2012, even with Wolfy coming back at some stage, but he has to overcome the physiological problems that come with a C injury. In saying that I have no doubt he will overcome it and I hope he has a blockbuster season.

    I have never been in favour of two captains. I think that Jamie Lyon should have the job full time and leave Kingy to play his best footy.

    I am also coinfident that Brookie will be a class stadium when it gets done. ATM we dont know what negotiations are in progress and no one would want to say anything to jepodise funding.
     
  6. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Good to read we've moved from the front office to the rear. Overall I think the only real problem next season is we'll miss Robbo's stability on the wing. Hoppa? not so much. On the captain side, what worked this season should be continued. I doubt if Lyon or King will go more than two more seasons anyway, and then there's Foran, Glenn or Choc who will step up. I see us flying high for the next few seasons and then restocking. I've read that Toovs will be assisted by Napper. Hopefully our brilliant conditioner will stay and not defect to the Dogs. I think fitness is the key to bringing out latent talent. When you're fit you start thinking positive. Guys like Bryant, always a reserve grader, got some belief and fitness and went on from there. Still he was always going to be second grade material. We just got him at a time when all the stars aligned, same as Hall. I just hope that you're on the money with the development of Brookvale. That's the crucial issue in the next decade. I detest Abbott, and don't trust him an inch, but he's our only hope in the financing of the old girl.
     
  7. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Well-Known Member

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    Top thread, Ryan.

    1) I share similar concerns to you in regards to player retention. Signing guys like Kite & Nood (Not to say that Nood isn't worth another contract) might hurt us in that area. Bear in mind that we will probably carry four forwards on the bench (with Buhrer being the utility should push come to shove) as Lussick & Nood are both effective as front or back rowers.

    Cunningham & Stromquist are the ones I'm concerned that the team will lose. Though in saying that, Cunningham needs a strong year this year to show that he'll be able to hold his own in the NRL & I'd imagine that Stromquist will go up to NSW cup as well this year, so he's probably 1-2 years away from cracking the NRL team. The club is going to have to walk a fine line between youth & experience & I won't be suprised if Kite or Nood only play through one year of their current two year extensions, the guys we have coming through could be great.

    2) Funnily enough, I'm not worried about the wing position at all for 2012. Now I'll probably end up eating those words but we have some great talent on the flanks. I really doubt that Wolfman will be fit for the season which is unfortunate, but we should be fine regardless. Oldfield & Whare are two incredibly promising players & I'd have no worries if I looked at a team sheet that had those two as the first string wingers. Oldfield had a mixed rookie season, but people are forgetting how great he was in the first half of the season, he tailed off late but he was never horrible. He should be a starter for us for a long time. Whare is another who has great ability, good runner of the ball & possesses top calibre speed (just like Oldfield) which is something we've needed out wide for quite some time.

    Behind those two it's a fairly open competition as I see it. MacDougall, Shorter, Davey & Lodge will all be playing for a crack at it should one of our guys go down. Given the rep that MacDougall has & Shorter's impressive try scoring record last year, I'm fairly confident that should one of those lads have to take over that they'd do just as well, if not better than any other back-up around the league.

    3) IMO, hard work & team work. Manly teams always seem to have a fantastic esprit de corps which is a must for successful teams. Des was a great coach in instilling those virtues in his players, fingers crossed that Tooves can do the same.

    4) I'm sure that Tooves will bring in some of his own guys when he takes over the job in 2013. Not sure if much will change next year as Des will probably try & keep things as settled as possible. As for 2013 & Tooves' coaching staff, I'd love to see Cliffy get on board (Go the Hawkies). He's got a passion for the game, reads it like no other & has expressed his desire to get involved in the coaching game. I see if more of a when rather than an if re:Cliffy.

    5) For sure.

    6) Without knowing all the politics & fine print it's hard to say what the best course of action for Manly is. The NSW cup is improving though & our Harold Matts & SG Ball teams always seem to produce talent so I don't see why they should move the reggies back up north. Probably saves the club a little bit in travel expenses as well.

    7) I've thought this since the current captaincy was announced. It's a delicate matter though, once you've given someone the captaincy it's not easy to take it away in a diplomatic manner. Kingy has been fading into the background with Killer taking on more of the media roles of being a captain. I'd say that they should leave it as is for now, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
     
  8. eagles2win

    eagles2win Well-Known Member

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    Going forward I hope the club goes about how Wigan and St Helens do business in regards to football especially in regards to junior teams. They are strong from their academy side up (a lot like the Bulldogs). While some may bury their head in the sand and only worry about the NRL team it's time to go through every grade from the junior reps up and fine tune the whole lot.
    I love the phrase your only as strong as your weakest link and unfortunately our weakest links are ordinary
     
  9. mickyj

    mickyj Member

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    Wing will be fine. A lot of our premership sides had average wingers. Providing they can do their job we will be fine. Whare, Oldfield and Wolfie are all up to it easy. And there are others coming thru.

    Joey helps lots of teams. He only did one session a week now I believe and no reason to think that will change.

    Captain. King is co captain so Killer does not have to do all the media stuff he is not into. Killer is the on feild captain and nothing will/should change there.

    Hopefully we get some more players for lower grades and pick that up.

    All the young guys are signed thru until Kite and Joe are finished their current contract. So we wont lose any of the others at this stage. Cunningham will hopfully see some NRL this coming season.
     
  10. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    You know guys, I think Oldfield has taken a whole heap of unfair criticism. I think he has played around 20 odd games, and he has scored around 12 odd tries (I might be wrong), but some of those were game winning tries (love the Sharkies one on the siren).

    In my opinion, and I may be bias, because I think he has the makings of Darius Boyd type progression, but I think he has played one shocker of a game, and that's what our fans liken him to.

    He has such a cool balanced, fast paced running style. One thing I'd like him to focus on, is in the air.

    Whare - well the kid has X-factor written all over him. He can produce magical hits, he could get himself over the try line quite often (Debut in Nth QLD with a very depleted team comes to mind).

    mickyj, I think I'm with you on the wing spot mate.

    This may concern some people, but I think the wing strength also sends out a very clear warning bell to the rest of the opposition out there - we may not have Origin paid type players there, but they'll challenge those quality players......and guess what.....

    Unlike Parramatta, we won't be paying over a million bucks for two wingers, because we will have been investing in our 1 (top 3 in the game), 6 (improving all the time) & 7 (and get this, he's currently rated 2nd best 1/2 back in Australia - he's in the Aussie squad people).

    Then at a stretch, we could throw our newest International out there in T-Rex. I love the man as an 80 minute player, and think he's more effective that way. He played 2 80 minute games late in the season, and was probably the best player on the park in those games (forward wise).

    You know guys, Tooves has been around this club for over 3 decades. He began his career in the maroon and white (not filthy Panthers colours), so surely his transition shouldn't be difficult. In fact, it should be natural, and I hope the players, fans, coaching staff (crusher) show him some courtesy & loyalty, and stick with the little champion, rather than turning their backs on us and running when things aren't going his/their way.
     
  11. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I think in George's case it isn't really a secret, he simply eats all the ingredients.
     
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  12. Shoe1

    Shoe1 Well-Known Member

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    "going forward" thanks Julia ;0)
     
  13. BOZO

    BOZO Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    " going forward" I thought we are going back to back :p
     
  14. bazeagle

    bazeagle Well-Known Member

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    Great post Ryan.
    I'm not concerned about our wing options.
    I do think Cliffy is a must get on board guy for the halves now that Johns is an All Black consultant.
    I am coming around on the Des thing - I reckon a new fresh beginning will really show up in a new Tooves led era of success on the park.
     

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