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Here we go again

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by ManlyBacker, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    Yep, the world is getting wackier and it is getting support:

    SMH 29/8/06

    PHILOSOPHERS, scientists and other intellectuals close to the Pope will gather at his summer palace outside Rome this week for intensive discussions that could herald a fundamental shift in the Vatican's view of evolution.

    There have been growing signs that Pope Benedict is considering aligning the Catholic Church more closely to the theory of "intelligent design',' taught in some US states, which advocates that some features of the universe and nature are so complex that they must have been designed by a higher intelligence. Critics say it is merely a disguise for "creationism", a literal belief in the Bible's account.

    A prominent anti-evolutionist and Catholic scientist, Dominique Tassot, told the US weekly National Catholic Reporter that this week's meeting was "to give a broader extension to the debate".

    "Even if [the Pope] knows where he wants to go, and I believe he does, it will take time. Most Catholic intellectuals today are convinced that evolution is obviously true because most scientists say so."

    In 1996, in what was seen as an unconditional capitulation to scientific orthodoxy, John Paul II declared that Darwin's theories were "more than a hypothesis".

    Last week, Cardinal Christoph Schonborn of Austria revealed that evolution and creation had been chosen as the subjects for this year's meeting of the Pope's Schulerkreis - a group consisting mainly of his former doctoral students that has been gathering annually since the late 1970s. Other participants at the closed-door meeting will include the president of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, Peter Schuster; the conservative ethical philosopher Robert Spaemann; and Paul Elbrich, professor of philosophy at Munich University.

    Last December, a US court sparked controversy when it ruled that intelligent design should not be taught alongside evolution theory.

    Cardinal Schonborn said "the debate of recent months has undoubtedly motivated the Holy Father's choice". But he added that, in the 1960s, the then Joseph Ratzinger had "underlined emphatically the need to return to the topic of creation".

    The Pope also raised the issue in the inaugural sermon of his pontificate, saying: "We are not the accidental product, without meaning, of evolution."

    A few months later, Cardinal Schonborn, who is regarded as being particularly close to Benedict, wrote an article for The New York Times that was seen as backing moves to teach intelligent design.
     
  2. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    oh for **** sake. Intelligent design is a theory made up from no facts, no observations no evidence it is a completely baseless theory in other words "Made up" a fairy tale

    The problem with ID enthusiasts is they argue the points that evolution is also a "theory" granted it is, but it is a scientific thoery, based on evidence and observation, it has a base.

    I suggest anyone who is interested in this topic try to get hold of Penn & Teller Bull****! The one they did on ID was one of the best and most well formulated arguments against ID I have ever heard. In fact they proved themselves to be god using the ID theory.

    Some basic wrap of it is here http://sedition.com/daily/20050826.html
     
  3. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Dan the man who knows everything. AS MB has said "Here we go again!!"

    I'll wait until the offseason for this one!
     
  4. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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  5. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

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    you know, i reckon that story about the naked bloke who ate that apple form the nasty talking snake has more truth to it.
     
  6. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Show me where it says an apple???? And no bloke spoke to a snake either!!!!!!!
     
  7. Narcissus

    Narcissus Member

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    Yeah. The problem with ID is that it's not falsifiable. Any argument against ID can be "yes, but that's what God wanted you to find / see / think: it's just a test".

    Don't get me wrong: I know what I believe, but I also know that ID is not a scientific theory.

    As they say, it's just as valid as the theory of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster ), so should it be taught in schools, too?
     
  8. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    exactly, creationists and religious types have latched onto the theory because using false practises they feel it holds a challenge up to evolution.

    The beef scientists and realists have with ID is that schools want ti taught in science. It has nothing to do with science and as such should not be put anywhere near a science class.
    Somehow the religous types have seen this as the correct parties...evolutionists...arguing against it or attacking ID.

    The problem with your religion boffins, is that they fail to see anything outside the path they have decided on and relate all to it
     
  9. earl

    earl Active Member

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    not that i am religeous or even remotely knowledgable on the topic , but if all life comes from evolution , why are we not still evolving , or any other creatures for that matter.
    I saw a show on it not long ago and all i got out of it was the ydecided that the building blocks of life are that complicated that evolution could not be responsible alone and that we must have somehow been created. Then it broke into the whole theory of a greater being ie. god.
    It mentioned nothing about the possibility of ET's(extra terrestrials). If one can believe in an all powerful being that has never been seen then the belief in ET's cant be too far fetched.
     
  10. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I saw that show and it was so full of fundemental flaws it was not funny!!!!!!!!

    Why are we still not evolving??

    We are. Evolution isn't a theory that can be watched and identified over centuries, even thousands of years is not really enough, the changes don't have to be on the outside either.

    One obvious proof of evolution is quite simple....... life expectancy! We now live longer than before, I know we have modern medicine but prior to any real idea of true mediciene and how the body works. The life expectancy of humans was increasing. That is evolution.

    Another point to evolution and its slowing is that we now adapt our environment to suit us rather than adapt to suit the environment!

    It can also be theorised that eventually male caucasians will evolve to no longer grow beards and facial hair since we no longer have a use for it and there is already evidence of this!

    Essentially shows that take one position from the start will always lean heavily to that side.
    Many ID enthusiasts don't seem to realise that Evolution does not discount the existence of a deity or supreme being
     
  11. earl

    earl Active Member

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    Look lets just all agree that Battle Star galactica is a true story and that we ****ed one planet and had to move to another.
     
  12. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    its got nothing to do with all of that mate :)

    but still. I enjoy to read up on this stuff, when you dig deeper into all of it, it is pretty interesting, but the one flaw with ID is that it is based on no evidence or fact, it is based simply on assumptions and ideas
     
  13. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    Penn and Teller are great - always good to see how they do things and try and guess it first. They have some awesome ideas from an engineering perspective.
     
  14. Narcissus

    Narcissus Member

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    Ignoring the fact that we are still evolving (ever seen tables and chairs or doorways from hundreds of years ago? There's a reason they're so small compared to us!) just look towards viruses and microlife for 'quick' signs of evolution. If the anti-evolutionists are so adamant that it's not true, then surely they have no fear of bird flu crossing with human influenza so as to make it human transmittable!
     
  15. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    If we are the product of ID, why did 'they/higher being/god' do such a crappy job? There are so many areas where we could have had real ID, but no, we have the poor package called our bodies to live with. There are fantastic intricacies, but wow there are some shockers as well (e.g. eye blind spots and detached retinas, the entire birthing process, hernias, diseases such as diabetes etc, pelvis slopes for 4-legged walking and the frame is poorly designed to manage walking on 2 legs, facial bones squashed to accommodate a larger brain cavity). This alone makes the whole ID bandwagon hard to climb aboard. These are all signs of adaption through an evolutionary process and environmental changes.
     
  16. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    you were in danger of going way off point there and subscribing to the idea of ID simply by an assumption based argument. I am glad i read it through to the end though, summed up nicely
     
  17. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    and what idiot whould have put a sewer through the middle of the recreational area :yeah:
     
  18. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    or the intake so close to the exhaust
     
  19. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    one last time kiddies:

    EVOLUTION AND THEISM ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  20. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Exactly.

    This is not a neither/nor argument. There are bigger questions than HOW!!

    Are we cosmic accidents of fate or were people planned to be here on earth? Is there something else out there or is our finite little existence on earth it????
     

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