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Forwards not the problem

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by TerryRandall, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. TerryRandall

    TerryRandall Well-Known Member

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    The backs are. Our forwards have dominated large slabs of matches this year, but our backs have not been able to sufficiently capitalise on this dominance to have us in winning positions. Inexperienced halves and lack of speed are the problem. Speed also hurts us when other teams make breaks against the run of play (think Titans game, Eels, and Raiders to name just a few) - we can't recover quick enough. You can't expect a forward pack to dominate for 80 minutes in every game - its not physically possible. The Raiders game is another perfect example - Raiders should not have been in that match at half-time given our dominance, but we couldnt execute well enough to put them away (blame the halves), and we couldnt cover the flukey Mogg and Monahan breaks (blame lack of speed). I think our forwards are now struggling mentally - all that effort on so many occasions just doesnt get converted. Quality halves also build pressure on the opposition (eg repeat sets) which gives the forwards time to recover. 
    Other thoughts;
    Brent Kite virtually won us the 2008 grand final, and frankly I dont care if he never plays another decent game - he is a legend and doesnt deserve some of the criticism on here.
    Ditto for Des.
     
  2. MPC75

    MPC75 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting way of looking at it. I don't think you will have many people agree with you. I think against Penrith and Canberra we were definately dominated in the forwards. The other games, youmay have a point. When Lyon and Matai were out, we didn't look like we had many points in us. On the weekend we looked like we had points in us, as we were putting on some good moves. We didn't have much go forward though.
     
  3. TerryRandall

    TerryRandall Well-Known Member

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    I think we only have one good move - the 2nd man cut out play to Farrar chiming in. We use it to death. Once again, if we had more creative backs executing better, we would be in a lot more comfortable position in matches.
     
  4. MissKate

    MissKate Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I heard on fox after the game that Perry didn't touch the ball once during his second stint on the field.  If he didn't have be ball then he can't have been helping with our go forward.  That in itself is disgraceful and he doesn't deserve anothe game for us unless we really have to play him.

    I think it is more correct to say our forwards didn't provide much go forward however when they did our halves didn't do anything with it.
     
  5. cc eagle

    cc eagle Member

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    Perrys stats......67mts. 9 hit ups 43 mins.
     
  6. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Look Terry realistically how can you say the forwards are going OK, when they patently are not.  George is fat and tired after a couple of hit ups, Princess tries hard but hasn't got the muscle to break a thread, Kite is backing into tackles again and Cross is just that, cross, and Perry is just soft crap.  The front rowers are just not breaking the line, they are passing the ball before the line, and giving away cheap penalties.  The backrowers, bar Rodney and Joe, are running sideways..  I'm critical of Hodko but he's behind a weakening pack (he should go immediately to Qld if loyalty counted for anything).  The backline lacks speed and smarts, and I put that down to Farrah trying to emulate Stewie.  He's not as slick or as fast as Brett, so Des should come up with some other plays.  Following kicks from the ruck to score seems his go.  Leave the backline movements till we get some speed.  Atm all I'd be saying is get the ball out to Big T to barge over, or kick for Matai or Robbo.  That seems to work.  Trying to 'finesse' the tries with the sweeping stuff isn't.
     
  7. eggson

    eggson Well-Known Member

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    I would think that having an interchange bench stacked mainly with forwards (3 of 4, sometimes 4 of 4) shows that forwards are there and required to dominate for 80 mins.

    And would you seriously not care if Kite wasted the rest of his contract playing heartless 'non-prop' football?  Wouldn't that have a negative effect on the other 16 guys, much like when you say the mental struggle due to backs not converting the forwards hit ups into points?  I'm not even saying Kite is playing terrible this year (i quite like him off the bench), but just because he had a perfect game in the 2008 GF doesn't grant him a free pass for the rest of his games.  If Rugby League stopped after the 08 GF then fine, but there's a GF every year and teams/players are supposed to do their best to win it...every year.
     
  8. TerryRandall

    TerryRandall Well-Known Member

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    Believe me I am no fan of Perry's and I am more than happy he is going. I have never thought he was a strong "go-forward" man in any event - his "value" (such as it was) was more in his bulk and being able to slow the play the ball down in defence. I think that was how he added value to the way Des wants the team to play. I would much prefer a metre-gaining front-rower ala Petro or even a Thaiday, but he was never in that mould anyway.
    My overall point though is that when you compare the forwards as a group to the backs as a group, it is the lack of execution and speed in the backs that is more of the problem. Our forwards were absolutely dominating teams in the first half of the season - they have not all become fat no hopers in the space of a couple of weeks. I honestly think they are mentally jaded from seeing positions of dominance not capitalised on. There have been so many games this year where I have gone away thinking how in the hell did we lose that match, given our long periods and apparent dominance. I think the forwards would be thinking the same.  
     
  9. MPC75

    MPC75 Well-Known Member

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    I thought the try that Robbo scored on Saturday was a very slick move. We are very good at second man plays and if you watch other top teams ie Saints they use that move alot. Boyd to Cooper to Morris. Pretty much a copy of what we do.
     
  10. cc eagle

    cc eagle Member

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    TH is not a creative half at this stage in his career, maybe he'll become one in the future who knows who cares, & there lies alot of our attacking problems, he kicks, passes makes the occasional run with little success so most of the attack has to come from Foran who is still learning.We must give DCE ago to see if his brain is up to speed with 1st grade.
     
  11. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    There is a little bit right in what Terry says, our backs haven't been able to capitalise on many positions we have been in at times. However, at times that backline has been
    Farrar, Robertson, Whare, Williams, Hopoate, Foran, Hodkinson

    tbh I would never expect to win a game with that on the park, no experience at all outside of Robbo

    But on saturday night, the forwards were crap

    King, I personally don't get the bagging of him on here this season. I have like his aggressive, lead from the front style. If you want an example of that, look at the kick off of the match on Saturday night, he was flying up the paddock to put a hit on and make 1st contact, from memory he took 2 hit ups our 1st set as well. He is going fine

    Perry, soft at the moment. For a bloke of his experience and rep jumpers I expect far better

    Kite. No bigger fan of Kite the man than me. Last year was a horror year, which can partly be put down to the death of his father. The 1st 6 weeks of this season, the old Kite was back and he had some storming games, I hope that can return

    Rose, I am probably the only one who doesn't care about what his gut looks like, just means there is more of him to stop. Look, last season, he was in red hot form, and was carrying a bit of timber around the front. Start of this season, once again there is a bit hanging over the shorts, but again pre injury, he is in bloody good form. I had a bit of a chat to him up on the Gold Coast, I still don't think his knee is 100%. I asked him about the props pentathlon, and he told me that he is unsure he can do it this year because he is not allowed to kick the ball

    Galuvao, we simply need to see more of him on the park

    Overall, it is a 26 week competition, and it is impossible to maintain the high level all the way through. The 1st 10 weeks, we were the best pack in the comp, peaking for the Dragons match. Since then we have been in a trough. The key is if this mob can lift themselves out of this hole again, and start to hit a peak in the later rounds of the comp. I hope/believe that they can do that
     
  12. CliffyIsGod

    CliffyIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Average meters this year by our props (NRL stats)
    Kite: 107
    King: 105
    Perry: 86
    Rose: 80
    Cross: 54

    Not too bad, on par with Dragons, but way short of Penrith.
     
  13. Cletus

    Cletus Active Member

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    I tend to agree with Terry. We do lack some speed and it does hurt us if we throw an intercept. Not that I think the forwards are going great but to me we look like a middle of the table team at the moment. We're not attacking terribly but we not converting field position into points either. Our defence is generally good but at times we let in some really soft tries. We really need to find an extra gear soon or we'll be straight out of the finals, if we end up making them.
     
  14. Ceagle

    Ceagle Well-Known Member

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  15. wombatgc

    wombatgc Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I can't say I agree with all of it TR, but that is a very good persuavive post . It got me looking at a different angle.
     
  16. The Indian

    The Indian Well-Known Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly with what terry has said - its not that our backs are bad as such , its that I think we are arguably the SLOWEST BACKLINE IN THE NRL ( without Stewart & Wolf ) and every clean break against us looks likely to be a try and intercepts forget about it we cant run anyone down.  The backs are all talented or creative or big but none is fast, Farrer is zippy over short distances.. who else would you say is even close to quick ??? .

    The job of the forwards is to lay the early platform and make yards - yes they could be better I will acknowledge that - but I think they have done this OK this year.  To me where we are lacking most is speed in the backs.

    I would love to see us recruit some speed - even our young blood is not that fast ( Whare and Hoppa - not slow but not electric ) so I cant see this changing any time soon.  Brett's knees have a lot riding on them. 
     
  17. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I'm not convinced Robbo is as slow as is being made out, he may have lost a touch of gas but in 2008 he was bloody quick, you saw that in the prelim win over the Warriors.

    I think most have come to the conclusion he is slow after Gordon kept reining him in, Gordon is lightning. Robbo was mowing down Monaghan pretty quickly saturday night
     
  18. Jerry1

    Jerry1 Well-Known Member

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    On the way home from the game I listened to the match rap up on 2GB. Blocker roach gave it to the forwards especially Perry.

    I thought they were crap myself. Gifty was OK but the rest crap. I had given Kingy a massive rap in origin but he did jack **** against the raiders.

    The backs were also poor but on the back of crap dished up but the rest of the team (middle of the field included) there was little hope.

    :-(
     
  19. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    I don't see it this way at all. We started the season with enthusiastic forwards that totally dominated with gang tackling and solid defense, then dropping off in the second half when they felt that the work was done. Yes, we have a backline that lacks speed and have dropped some opportunities and seeing Robbo and others being run down is annoying - but nothing alters the fact that our forwards have dished up rubbish performances ever since the Saints game. They can and should be leading but they aren't.
     
  20. ChildersMick

    ChildersMick New Member

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    Just a minute here folks,although there's a bit of truth in all the above posts,the thing that most impressed me was what a quality side the raiders have.They have been pretty patchy this year but I reckon they can beat anyone on their day and on the weekend they were up for it.As for Kingy, if he'd tried any harder he would have needed a Medicab to get himself back in the dressing room.

    I have not been a real fan of Farrar at fullback.With my coach's hat on I'd be moving Robbo to fullback where I think he was potent last year,
    Farrar to centre/wing/bench ?
     

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