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Foran v forward strength

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by susan, Sep 13, 2014.

  1. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    Firstly the bunnies were always going to win last night but 40 nil after 60 may be the best thing to happen to our club.We are not used to this and let's hope it provokes a response.Those blaming Ballin and Buhrer missing haven't been watching the last 6 weeks.Without them we were always going to lose but to put it bluntly Manly Warringah footballs teams do not succumb like that.Other factors are in play.The reality is 10 years of success in the salary cap era is sensational and it is hats off to everyone involved.This day was always coming and the key is to make the right moves.

    A couple are obvious but the tricky area is around the halves.The obvious ones will happen now...Choc will go,Stevie should be allowed to leave.Both are club legends and for different reasons don't want to be here.Let them go.They deserve respect.Snake will stay simply because we will pay him almost double what other clubs will given his injuries and he is contracted till 2016.Injuries aside Bullet has a lot give our club over the next 3 years.

    Now the hard bit.I have been a proponent of keep the halves and build around them like the Storms big three.The problem with that is that Kieran Foran,despite what all the fans want to believe,is looking to leave and in my opinion will be elsewhere in 2016.Only my opinion.If you want a single illustration of our problems at the moment then look at the way he is playing.The mongrel is gone and 2/3 of Kieran's paycheck is due to his incredible desire and toughness.He is playing ok but that fierceness that is his X factor is for the moment gone.

    So do we throw the cheque book at Foran big time and hope that he gets past this? Tough question and the byproduct of it all is will DCE buy into an era of Manly rebuilding as virtually the sole lynchpin if Foran leaves.As long term fans we know the Eagles rarely take long to be a force once again but a Bennett led Broncos will be tough to resist. Foran staying or going may very well be what makes his mind up either way.

    Personally I think Kieran will be leaving.Whether we bite the bullet and pay Kieran huge overs or really bolster a pack that needs rejuvenating badly will probably shape our next decade.The blokes who run the football side of things at Manly are prove performers and I am confident we will make the right moves.
     
  2. pjayz

    pjayz Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Hi Susan, I respect your opinion, and usually agree with you; however, I think he has been our best player. He has been a shining light IMO.

    You could well be right about him wanting to leave - I wouldn't know, but gee I think he has been our best in an under-performing team of late.
     
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  3. torana355

    torana355 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Yep its time to start our rebuild after many years of success with this great group of players. Personally i think we need to sacrifice some of our backline to bolster our forward pack. Im not even sure how we handled Souths forward pack when we beat them earlier this year but last night we looked like we had ZERO go forward.
     
  4. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    hey Playz I agree he is playing ok but his calling card is the mongrel factor and his reputation is built on ball playing tough at the line and big defence.in the last couple of months his X factor that sets him apart is not there.He I has been going no better or no worse than others in a struggling team but to command the huge dollars he needs to lift his intensity.He is not a supremely gifted player like DCE but his courage and toughness is what sets him apart.He is simply not a happy camper.Which way the club goes on this DCE /Foranissue will be a defining factor for us.

    I know many will say DCE has been below par as well (and he has) but halves are as rare as hens teeth and players with his brilliance( as opposed to Forans toughness and desire) and in my opinion he has to be the priority if we need to make a choice.Lets hope it doesn't come to that.Put it this way,Choc leaving will help his mindset,I can tell u that.
     
  5. Mavin

    Mavin Well-Known Member

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    I would like to keep both but reality is we keep 1 and spread the cap a bit more evenly. Who we keep could come down to who wants to stay.We have to get 1 to commit in the off season. We need to know because our recruiting for 2016 should be starting now approaching players we want.
     
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  6. panash

    panash Well-Known Member

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    we have had rumors why choc wants to leave
    matai for better money to end his career...

    But Foran , a young guy whos mates with DCE , loving the northern beaches why is he contemplating of leaving ?? i personally have been told other things but nothing direct about Foran..

    i thought he was a happy sea eagle.
     
  7. Mavin

    Mavin Well-Known Member

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    If you believe the rumours he is in the Stewart camp (also known as peters ) and that's why. The sad thing is the (team) performances suggest the rumours are true.We want know for sure until after the season.
     
  8. Moops

    Moops Well-Known Member

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    Where are the senior players taking responsibility for this display? Joel Selwood from the Cats let rip at the experienced players after Geelong were knocked out last night. He questioned whether they were still up for the fight and, if not, had to reconsider whether they wanted to keep playing for the club. Now, that is a statesman! Toovey is always the one taking the fall. Are any of our players taking responsibility? Where can we get a leader like this?
     
  9. the mauler

    the mauler Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I think we should keep both halves. We are just lacking a couple of 120kg props to make inroads when we've got the ball,
    They don't have to be expensive big names either, they just need the size.

    You just have to look to the side a couple of years ago where we had Big Georgie, Smokin Joe ect... Big strong running props who would get our sets rolling.

    The 1st hit up is just so crucial and we are getting dominated because our props are too light.But if you add a couple of big boppers it could all turn around pretty quickly.

    An example of the type of prop we need is Boyd from the Raiders whose 120kg plus and makes 15m every hit up (also not on big $$)
    Then the other guys can play off the back of that.

    If we can find a couple in his mould we will be fine.
     
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  10. bob dylan

    bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I have been saying it for 6 months, Foran will be a Rooster in 2016, as a matter of fact I think it's a given.

    But we can enjoy his services until then, at least, hopefully I am wrong.
     
  11. MPC75

    MPC75 Well-Known Member

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    I think everyone is reading into this way too much. Our forwards aren't dominating the ruck, and it's been this way the last 6 weeks. The halves can't do squat when the forwards aren't laying a platform. Foran has also been worked over in defense so he looks tired to me, I don't think his body language is that he doesn't want to be there. Our completitions the last few weeks have been crap which means they have to work harder in D and although our completitions were better last night the big forwards were always going to run at Foran and DCE to wear them out.
     
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  12. Killer03

    Killer03 Well-Known Member

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    What makes you say that Bob? Are they planning on Pearce/Foran as the halves combo there?

    I think losing Foz would be such a tragedy, he has all the hallmarks of a Manly legend (in 10 years time). But I do question at the moment if his mind is on the job.
     
  13. bob dylan

    bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    As I said I have posted it here a lot.

    Reasons

    1 Foran wants out, he is as disgruntled as anyone over GS issue, believe what you will.

    2 Maloney is on the outer at the chooks.

    3 Chooks have unlimited cap and only buy the very best players.

    4 best friend is Mitchell Pearce (not so much a factor but I reckon similar offers from Manly and Roosters this could be a clincher for them)
     
  14. MPC75

    MPC75 Well-Known Member

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    If Roosters win the GF this year, there is no way Foran will be going to the Roosters. They will be struggling to hold onto the players they have got even with $$Bill leaving. The salary cap will rip them apart just like it does all teams.
     
  15. the mauler

    the mauler Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    What i can't understand is why are we having so much trouble staying under the cap, while The Rorters seem to keep everyone. Not only do they keep them all they add to their roster every year!!!

    Also they've got alot of players on their roster that are now rep players who would get upgrades. Just doesn't add up.
     
  16. rifraff

    rifraff Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Without Choc, our forward pack would be rated somewhere in between marshmallows and something softer than marshmallows.

    Don't underestimate what he does, and what he brings to the team.
     
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  17. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it is like this:

    Last night, we were without two very good ball playing, wide running backrowers, who tend to make metres pretty quickly off the mark, and often have the defensive line moving backwards due to this.

    Secondly, our three best defenders (Buhrer, Ballin & Stewart) were all out at the very same time. Take any teams 3 best defenders, their lock, hooker and utility player out, and most teams would struggle.

    Third, while Taufua is young, and will get over this slump (remember Anthony Minichello also went through this at one point in his career), he is being focused, and targeted, and is costing us.

    I think it's really premature to blame either Kieran or Daly in all of this. They are playing behind a very bland, slow and monotonous forward pack. That's not to say at full strength they are like that, because Ballin, Fa'aoso, Buhrer & Glenn Stewart makes that same forward pack multi faceted.

    I'm not making excuses, because we have been pretty poor for two months. But I think the underlying issues are being blown out of proportion. Why do I say that? Because Mark Bryant, who is an ex-player, but still very, very active with our club told me so himself, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind me saying. He straight up told me Choc said to him, he is disappointed that people are blaming him for so many thing that just aren't true, and the club is much tighter than all of this Telegraph garbage. (He actually got Matt Ballin to get me a signed jersey :) )

    Last night The Rabbits were on fire. They have spent very craftily, and are going to be right there at the end. They are big, mobile, unbroken and are all pulling in the same direction. This is there year in my opinion. I couldn't think of any teams that would have rolled them last night. That, and the NRL has done everything in their power to accomodate them last night.

    I think we are looking for things to blame here. Personally, while very upset at our form of late, we have to remember how many dollars are sitting on the sidelines, a few players are down on form, and the teams with the bigger, more mobile, and with lots of mongrel in them are doing well, and we don't have that at the moment.

    We also have to remember, if our team came 14th this year, we woldn't be upset at players leaving. We are upset, because through it all, we came equal 1st. Not many teams get that honor. If players leave, maybe it's for the better, and Warwick, who has had a lot of things go his way over the last decade, will transition our team, by bringing in more mobile, aggressive, diverse players like JWH, Lussick & others that we have lost, but need.

    Lastly, it is very unlikely teams have the space for the Watmough's 450k, Foran's asking price and the DCE's. Ok, maybe a bottom dweller like The Titans or Raiders, but then, who cares. It's going to be fun watching us go through another rebuild. That's when I made the best friends amongst you last time.
     
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  18. swoop

    swoop Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    ATM I don't care who comes or goes as long as we get harmony at the club.
     
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  19. the mauler

    the mauler Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Mate with all due respect, you've been the one ripping into Snake , Foz , Choc ect non stop for weeks.
     
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  20. rifraff

    rifraff Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Never seen Harmony play before. If you want him, I do too
     

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