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Edge defence

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Snake, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. Snake

    Snake Doing The Eagle Rock!

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    I am going to jump to the defence (pardon the pun) of Killer and Skivvy.

    It is easy to assume that when a player runs past one of these two guys to score, it must be their fault right? not necessarily.

    In every match of football there is a winning team and a losing team. Of all the winning sides I have watched over the years, I can't remember their centres consistently covering a patch of 30m and being asked to make "one on one" try saving tackle after try saving tackle across the course of 80 minutes.

    You could see the space on the fringes on the television before the ball had even left the ruck. We got pumped up the middle and that is why there was so much space on the fringes. It's not black and white for Killer and Skivvy. They could look like genius defenders next week if the forwards hold there own in the middle, because they will be asked to cover a much smaller space and they can herd the opposition player out of room.

    In the first half, Killer made a great one on one tackle on Tim Simona that prevented a try, but it's impossible for him to do that across the course of a match. I am not saying either of these guys never make poor reads, but watching them get smoked on Monday Night had more to do with our defence being stretched in the middle, than the impending retirement of these two legends.
     
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  2. BOZO

    BOZO Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Love your work Snake
     
  3. mjb136

    mjb136 MWSE fanatic Premium Member

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    Agree. Sliding defence used to be our hallmark.
     
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  4. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    That's how I saw it. Wests forwards ran straight and hard and made good ground virtually every carry, so our defence was always going backwards, covering up the middle desperately, eventually leaving the flanks exposed.
    I suppose Ballin used to lead our middle defence and he's not easily replaced, not so far anyway.
     
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  5. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    We all know it's the wingers fault. Getting rid of Hiku was supposed to stop all this rot, as according to some he was the reason we lost so many games last year.
     
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  6. davidmanly

    davidmanly Member

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    Using sliding defense against that much pace is suicide. Our 2 boys are too slow to give teddy and co room on the outside. Up and in would work better for us. Same thing happened last year with mati. We seriously need to fix this problem know.
     
  7. Snake

    Snake Doing The Eagle Rock!

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    Up and in didn't seem to work for Naufaoluma's second try. Whether the edges rush in or slide is not going to make much of a difference when the middle is stretched so badly because the speed and athleticism of the modern footballer is too much for even the very best defenders to handle when faced with so much room to cover. I remember at one stage, DCE was the third defender in on the right side and he was almost touching the goal post.
     
  8. HoldenV8

    HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

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    In one case on Monday night, yes. Those two times that Jorge raced out of the line looking for a big hit in the second half left Skivy in no mans land really. Skivy just doesn't have the pace to cover the opposition half, centre and winger coming at him (it wasn't helped by Tommy being out of position near the posts and in no position to help). I can't recall right now if both times led to a Tigpies try, but I can recall that they scored the second time Jorge did it. And I do recall on that try that the first thing Skivy did was turn around and give Jorge evils. He wasn't happy.

    With Killer though, unfortunately when the guys inside of him aren't able to shut the ball down, quite often he has to come in and help, which usually leaves the winger stranded, or if the winger follows him in it leaves a gap that even I could score in (and I'm an old, fat front rower who'd be hard pressed to beat Martin Bella in a foot race).

    I do agree with you C&C. I thought that our wingers, especially Hiku, copped a lot of unfair criticism over the last year or two. The wingers are victims of those inside not doing their jobs properly.

    Wingers aren't there because they are great defenders (though there has been the odd exception to the rule over the years. ET was one of the best defensive wingers I've ever seen...when he played there of course). They rely on those inside of them to do their jobs so that they don't have to tackle.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  9. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    OK. You have defended their defence.
    Now, who's going to defend their poor attack in the first two matches?
     
  10. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    Been happening since 2014, aging our backs due to the increased workload in defence and go forward grinding runs that both players shouldn't have to do as often.

    When you see Matai getting in for a hitup to lift the troops or trying to put on the big hit you know things are soft up the middle---even Lyon will take the odd hitup like run.

    Longgggggggg season people just try to enjoy the small improvements and reminisce of the good old days when Manly returned to the NRL from the Northern Eagles days----or just create a blame Foran and a lack of speed out of Dummy Half thread----that should fix everything up lol shouldn't it.
     
  11. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    So in other words we are basically " ****ed for 2016"????
     
  12. PONTIAN SEA EAGLE

    PONTIAN SEA EAGLE Well-Known Member

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    Maybe if dce tried getting repeated sets when attacking we wouldn't be much down our end defending.
     
  13. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    Haven't watched a game in 2016 but i expected such performances as alluded to in the few posts i made during the offseason.

    Losing Ballin you lose tough harderned defence up the middle and crisp structured organised distribution from dummy half,

    Losing Foran there is a lack of at the line straight ballplaying plus playing flat off a quick play the ball on the short-side for soft go forward metres plus holding the middle and playing deep to DCE in the red zone.

    The team culture is going to take time to build, way too many new faces to expect too much this year, and we need to lose/replace a fair few more back rowers and front rowers to help maintain the aggression and intensity.

    Mateo is too inconsistent but his ballplaying options might re-leave the pressure on DCE and Walker making them more relaxed and play what is in front of them.

    If Manly can put on some early points and get away from the grind a little early on in games the confidence will rise the hard straight running will return, the defence will lift due to being in the oppositions half more often and wanting to ram the message home that we are in front.

    Obviously this is the rebuild that had to happen and it is nowhere near finished yet----i still think letting Ballin go this year is a big mistake. Crisp composed reliable delivery, tough defence, leadership at training and on the field with his actions would of been great for a squad in development over the next 1-2years---maintaining some structure between dummy half and first receiver was a no brainer for me in a transition year.

    Manly grabbed basically every player they could while we had the chance to fast track the rebuild(it had to happen eventually) but it also fast tracks the decline before seeing the positives as there is no cohesion and a lack of culture, it will take time.
     
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  14. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    Yep just reinforces my opinion , we are ****ed in 2016.

    Oh well the aim is to NOT win the spoon, so we at least have to get maybe 6 or 7 wins.......mmmm wonder where they might come from.
     
  15. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    If the "aim" is to not win the spoon the aim is already in the wrong direction.
     
  16. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    Hmm might head to the game on Monday laptop and camera in hand if they let me in.
     
  17. Jerry1

    Jerry1 Well-Known Member

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    Lucky Newcastle are even worse... otherwise we'd be odds on...
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016

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