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Eagles 1/2's failing to produce results

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Ryan, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    I want to make a thread about Foran / DCE NOT about how wonderful they are, or how much they are worth, or who they are going to play with. This is solely about their on field performance.

    I'd love to know what peoples thoughts are with their performances and results ON the field of late?

    Personally, I think they are failing miserably. Their team looks out of shape, and there is no structure (they aren't leading the team around well).

    Take AWAY the fact they have scratched TWO solitary wins from their past eleven games or something, do people think we look ok?

    Personally, we looked MUCH more structured, disciplined, and lead properly with Orford at 1/2 back. Foran isn't a ball player, he's a ball runner similar to Nik Kosef in my opinion, and really isn't ideal at 5/8 in my opinion (would make an ok centre, and a pretty good lock).

    I think we should consider putting Lyon back to 5/8, and shuffling Foran to maybe 1/2 back, centre or lock.

    DCE is trying to do too much. He's grossly out of form. Kicking balls out in the full, getting hammered in defense and attack.

    These kids should be dominating, but the results over the past 2.5 months say the opposite.

    Or am I seeing this completely wrong? Please guys, keep this thread about MANLY, and the on field stuff.

    Do they need to change their style? Is their form poor because our forwards aren't dominating? Heck, ARE they dominating, and we just aren't getting the wins?

    One thing I noticed, is that we have a much flatter attacking line. This reduces the time our halves get. Could that be it?

    On current form, I think we need to consider our options (by that I mean playing style), because DCE and Foran seem to have been worked out by the rest of the competition, and they are getting shut down far too easily now.
     
  2. damiennp90

    damiennp90 Well-Known Member

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    I thought foz's form in the 4 nation was very strong. DCE is out of form but after a full pre season and he's too good to play bad for long. Get what your trying to say but still think were better with them than them playing against us
     
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  3. lsz

    lsz Well-Known Member Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Ryan I think it might be a bit hasty considering this is based on the back end of last year (when we started to run out of forwards and get dominated up front)

    They seemed to go okay when we were able To match most teams at the start of the year
     
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  4. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Nah, that's not it. I'm thinking about THIS year. What do they do, to start winning games again? What has to change?

    I'm not even considering who they MIGHT play for next season.

    They are losing matches very consistently now. We need to change something to halt that..im just not sure what that is?
     
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  5. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    That's a good point, and what I mean. I think they really missed Ballin and even Buhrer.
     
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  6. MadMarcus

    MadMarcus Local Lunatic 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I agree with you Ryan that they are out of form, but when they are firing they are the best 6/7 combination in the club with daylight second, third and fourth - so I wouldn't go changing it.
     
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  7. Budgewoi Eagle

    Budgewoi Eagle In for the long haul. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Hard to say without the forwards going forward at the end of last season - due to injury. Can't count the nines because forwards have a very different role (if any). To me that explains Foz, but DCE? Maybe. Maybe he tries to gain the field advantage that the forwards haven't managed by passes and kicks that push it to the nth degree - and the percentages mean many must fail. Let's see.
     
  8. PONTIAN SEA EAGLE

    PONTIAN SEA EAGLE Well-Known Member

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    Dce just needs to run more forward than side ways when we're attacking,you see half an opening just charge at it.As for fozz he needs to be a consistent 80 minute player & get involved more with the play.
     
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  9. mike walker

    mike walker Well-Known Member

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    g'day all,I don't think that the win/loss ratio can be solely attributed to the pair of them as other well documented factors have been at play as much as any drop in form from the 6 and7.As much as anything I think it does show the old adage that if your forwards don't go forward your halves will struggle no matter who they are.In saying that though it also goes to show that they still have a way to go in proving they can consistently drag the team up like aJohns,Thurston or Lockyer could, and would need to,to justify the reported money they are being offered.
    cheers mike
     
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  10. wombatgc

    wombatgc Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Is this a gee-up?:speechless:
     
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  11. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Wombat, are you seeing different mate? Results are results. One thing that frustrates me is that after Melbourne had their wash out, their forwards were, well....kind of washed up players, but they still produced results.

    Players suggesting they want to be the highest paid players in the league need to dominate so, like the lads in Melbourne do.

    I certainly think Ballin / Buhrer were missed, but they arent metre makers. Will Mason / Mateo change that, that is the big question?

    Otherwise, exactly the same problem will face us. Ensure an aggressive defensive line against Manly, their halves completely disappear.

    Same thing happened to Tim Smith from Parramatta remember. Sterling had him as the next big thing.

    Opposition defensemen countered that, gave him less time (and Parras Eels big metre guys retired in Morrison, Hindmarsh etc), and here Tim Smith is, playing in England.

    In my opinion, we need to stand deeper in attack. Bring Lyon into 5/8 (we won a GF with him there 40-0), get Foran to run wider. I want Lyon with the ball in his hands more than both DCE and Foran - sorry.

    We also need to create a different style. Weve become easy to play against, and the results are showing. Foran / Cherry-Evans arent cutting the mustard right now. They lose some go forward in the forwards, they go to water.

    Thats why Foran excelled at International levels. Their forwards got over the top of a second string Australian forward pack.

    These guys are FAR from Cronk / Thurston status. In fact, take DCE out, and.put Thurston in that 2nd string aussie side, I think we win that event.
     
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  12. sheridanstand78

    sheridanstand78 Well-Known Member

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    My observations of all this are that the team unity and harmony started to unravel after Whatmough let his feelings be known, the genie was out of the bottle and the dissent was rampant.

    To be fair, DCE had a serious knee injury from origin time and he was not able to run as he wanted to and his game became more inconsistent. He also struggled because as a team we were 100 meters a game down on go forward, any half back would suffer with that being an issue. DCE also has to learn how to finish off tight games like Cronk and Thurston do. I can name 3 games from last season where he was needed. The game against Newcastle he got us home on a miracle field goal. Against the drizzle round 1, he had the chance to win that game in golden point as well as the semi against the dirty dogs. Those were clutch moments and he took wrong options, its a learning curve for him and he will get better. I would like to see DCE take on the line more this season but for that we must have quality go forward. He also has a great 40/20 in his locker and we are lucky to have him in the team.

    Foz to me suffered like DCE about our lack of authority up front and that was shown when he played for the Piwis and how their pack dominated the international series. Foz also seemed to lose focus after the dissent started and he did not dominate games as he can, I disagree with the earlier sentiment that Foz is not a ball player. Have a look at the tries he sets up for Matai and the guys on the fringe of the ruck and his understanding with Snake for the banana kicks is lethal. He also is a great hole runner and so important to the balance of the team.

    Our halves have been such an asset for the team and it would be nice to see them blossom into an even better pairing. Lets hope all of this uncertainty ends because this is starting to really tire out the fans.
     
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  13. maxta

    maxta Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Dont know what you drank last night but give it up!!
    The ONLY games they have not owned is when the fowards are so badly beaten up, there is no platform to work off, on most occasions when massive injuries have sapped the engine room.
    This leads to trying too hard, pushing passes, playing sideways ect.
    Have seen Johns & Thurston play shockers & guess what - behind dominated packs.
    I do agree Foz is not the conventional 5/8 but his leadership & tenacity on that edge are massive, plus his passing game has improved since Johns arrival imo.
    Also being youngsters allow some lattitude with all the spotlight on them over the past 6 months.
     
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  14. the mauler

    the mauler Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    You can't judge them on last year it was a debacle on and off the field.
    Our forward pack was getting dominated every week they had no chance to play the way they would've liked.
     
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  15. robbiea

    robbiea Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    NEWSFLASH
    Season hasn't started.
    Stop flogging a dead horse.
    Its obvious you believe your role here at silvertails is the sh!t disturber.(you do it well)
    It seems like you are a built in silvertails in-house troll.
    Am I wrong ?
     
  16. COMMANDER

    COMMANDER IF YOU DO NOT TRY YOU CAN NOT FAIL 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Cherry was busted from since before Origin with his knee.

    Mauler, you are right, our forwards had nothing from the time they were monstered by Souths about round 20.

    I really don't think the debacle scenario is going to change until there is some resolution to whether they come or go. Push will come to shove shortly I would imagine, the Club isn't going to let this air biscuit float in the air all season.
     
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  17. flying sea eagle

    flying sea eagle Active Member

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    I think we can only afford to keep one I'd rather see us sign Cherry-Evans, Sezer, Merrin, Waerea-Hargreaves and Taumalolo than two halves and 180k left as the average salary for the rest (assuming Matai and Mason move on as well)
     
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  18. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Guys, The Rabbits knew they were losing Teo, Burgess, Merritt, The Bulldogs Ennis, Brown & others, but they got on with business. They didn't completely capitulate towards the end of the season. That's an attitude thing anyway, and I don't think our halves poor form is an attitude thing, I think it's more so an ability thing. IF they allowed the off field situation to affect them, then again, that detracts from them as a character, AND player, but this thread isn't about that.

    I also don't buy the fact our halves could do nothing, because our forwards weren't producing. Why do I say that? Newcastle Knights. While we were scratching for 2 wins from our final 5 season proper games, they were cruising to 4 wins from 5.

    They had Willie Mason, Adam Cuthbertson, David Fa'alongo, Chris Houston, Beau Scott, Kade Snowden, Adam Clydesdale, Korbin Sims and Jeremy Smith as their forwards, while we had Brenton Lawrence, Jason King, Jayden Hodges, Anthony Watmough, Josh Starling, Tom Symonds, Justin Horo, Dunamis Lui and JSL.

    I actually don't think it's the forwards. I think it's how and where players are being told to stand, play and go ON the field. Where were our Generals? Where was the game plan? What I DID see, is a pair of players who looked as though they had mailed the season in, and lacked the ability to play ourselves out of what was, and what we are still in - a massive slump.

    I just really, really think they got worked out, and were shut down, and their ability / skills / leadership weren't good enough to transition & make the necessary changes to win games, like lesser known halves and forward packs like that in Newcastle.

    Like I say - stand deeper. LEAD the team around. Don't overplay your hand. Some of DCE's kicks in the nines were embarrassing. Foran just looked devoid of ball playing ability. Keep it simple, but make it aggressive, and in your face. That's when we excel, and that's when guys like Orford / Lyon in the halves completely ruined other teams.
     
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  19. sheridanstand78

    sheridanstand78 Well-Known Member

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    I would not really consider their form in the 9s as an indication of their true form, that is a mickey mouse format and I am greatful they got through unscathed. These guys have dominated many many games over the last 4 years. It is all about the platform they are given, the last 3rd of last season saw that suffer due to serious injuries to key defenders, our pack being muscled out in the big games and some guys carrying injuries, at about the round 18 stage were were a great chance to win the comp then all of these things happened.

    I would like to think there is a hunger for this season and the boys will have a point to prove.
     
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  20. Shoe1

    Shoe1 Well-Known Member

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    I feel manly struggle to win most games, yet we win most games. There is usually a period of every game where we lose the ascendancy and as a fan I have a tough time. I don't know if this is because I am an obsessed fan. Is this an objective view of what is occurring on the field?

    For example last year we lost to storm twice in the last minute, just beat parra, penrith, Cowboys, souths and Knights in the last minute or minutes. Lost golden point in semi. I don't feel that we have cruised to victory very often lately. However does any team? I have lost perspective.

    Every game is a struggle. It's a credit to their toughness that we win so often.
     
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