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Discretional Penalties

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by conanu, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. conanu

    conanu Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I just watched part of the replay of the Parra game and I checked the 3 ridiculous momentum killing Penalties that we received at minute 9:45 in front of the posts, 24:25 Parra leg up coming out of their end 25:15 another in front of posts. All of which were awarded for imaginary ruck infringements. The first at 9:45 was against Api for apparently having a hand on the ball as the player got up, on replay he clearly doesn't and the time it took for the tackle to be completed and the play the ball to take place was around 3 seconds which is normal, This gifts Parramatta 2 points from in front of the sticks. Then we scored and started to build a bit of pressure and then the ref's strike again at 24:25 when Jake T makes a semi dominant strong tackle on Gordon returning the ball after we had a really good strong set, It was also completed in reasonable time but the ref saw fit to penalise Jake for holding down which he wasn't but it was clearly designed to stop our momentum again. Then at the end of that set 25:15 Jake T and Starlo tackle Roberts who is still moving forward when we are blown for messing around with him, again right in front of the sticks at the end of their set.

    Jake T has a habit of taking a little long sometimes but all of these instances he was fine, It really looked like the ref's were following a tip sheet and my guess Jake was on that tip sheet for slowing the ruck down. It just shows you how much these ref's can manipulate a game without the average bloke noticing it at all. Parra really look like South Sydney did a couple of years ago. Refs are hesitant to blow penalties against them and quick to punish other teams for minor indiscretions at any opportunity. It was really obvious that the refs wanted to get Parra into the game and knock the wind out of our sails. Something fishy going on again.
     
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  2. HoldenV8

    HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing new though this year is it.

    When the Speels beat the Cows, Horsehead was at his best that night. Now granted, the Cows had a shocker by their recent standards, but every single 50/50 call went to the home side, among others he came up with. And midway through the second half Horse basically waved off Thurston saying "I'm being consistent". I remember thinking to myself at the time that it was consistently biased to the Speels. And its not the only game Horsehead has been in charge with them playing and he had hammered their opposition. He was like that when they played Penrith although Cartwright's last second try foiled the party.

    And the next game against the Dogs (who again like the Cows the week before were below par), the bunker basically ruled there was a forward pass in what looked to otherwise be a perfectly legal Dogs try. That would (with a successful conversion) have tied the score at that stage. It took the wind out of their sails.

    Its pretty obvious to most that the NRL needs the Speels to do well, especially with the growing threat from GWS and the Wanderers. Or at least, they think they need them doing well. From the start of this salary cap business its also been obvious that the NRL is doing what they can to lessen the impact of any punishment. The fact that they have already publicly stated that neither Will Hopoate's nor Anthony Watmough's salary cap related money will be included in any of this is proof enough of that. Hopoate was signed in 2011, right in the middle of all of this, and Choc at the end of 2014 when they were obviously still at it.

    And then you look at how many times Parra-doesn't-matta have been on Nein this year. Other than against Canberra....its been every single week. For a team that finished 12th in 2015 (and isn't Brisbane) that's a lot of FTA television games so early the next season. And then there are the rumours floating around that Nein are actually pushing the NRL to be as lenient as possible in any punishment handed out to the Speels. Like Brisbane, Parra-doesn't-matta rate well for Nein because for some unknown reason they happen to be one of, if not the most popular Sydney club.

    It all points to them being flavour of the year doesn't it o_O
     
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  3. LittleSnake

    LittleSnake New Member

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    as much as i'd like to agree with you here, the speels stats on paper were amazing. As much as i woe the game that got away, we had opportunity's to put them away; and our halves didn't execute. Brett Stewart is taking too much of a play making role and not playing his natural football and Dylan walker is a centre.

    We had that game in the bag and we cocked it up. If our defence was up to scratch we wouldn't have needed the refs.
     
  4. Lord Eagleton

    Lord Eagleton Well-Known Member

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  5. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I really want to see the introduction of 6 again for these differential penalties instead of a penalty and option to kick for touch or goal. It would make the game faster though slightly more confusing for viewers to follow. It would play into tv hands though as they could display it when it happens.

    They trailed it a few years ago in the all stars and in my opinion it worked really well.

    I think it would mean penalties have less influence on the score and more influence on actually playing football and tiring teams out.

    I would be worried about it being too much like touch football but in all honesty league is starting to get to wear Union is at where people play for the penalty to get the points.

    Call differential, play 6 again with a different signal to normal 6 again and keep going, I would say more teams will be reluctant to give away those penalties than worrying about 2 points on the board, because they don't get the break and just have to keep on tackling
     
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  6. manlyfan76

    manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Agree, i would add that two differential penalties for the same offence in a row should see a player in the bin for five minutes, too many teams are happy to give away penalties defending their line and a six again penalty with no option to take the two would only encourage them futher.
     
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  7. Beer buzzard

    Beer buzzard Only tipsy on gamedays 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    After each penalty, everyone wants to see a replay in order to see if it was really a penalty or not. In That all stars game, penalties were given out like candy. Suddenly we will have a penalty count resembling 30 to 26.
     
  8. Shoe1

    Shoe1 Well-Known Member

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    Are they anything like congressional penalties?
     
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  9. Bearfax

    Bearfax Well-Known Member

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    At this point I want to speak purely as a Rugby League supporter.

    I dont want to disparage refs and the hard job they have to do. They generally do a fine job. But too often I watch a game where Manly arent playing and I have no serious interest in other than watching a good game of footie. Suddenly the refs seem for some reason obliged to give penalties at certain moments for innocuous issues, as if its required to be seen doing their job.

    I 'm watching a match and suddenly a penalty is given when the tension is up but the reason is because at a certain point they decide its time. The reason for the penalty is for an action no different from what has been happening over and again, and is often less of an issue than other instances when a penalty isnt awarded. Its as if they say in their head, 'penalty time'.

    I find this exceedingly irritating because it affects the whole flow of the game. I can understand where an obvious infringement occurs, but these 'token penalties' need to be expunged from the game. Let the game flow. Fortunately its worse in Union, where refs are exceedingly pedantic. Surely refs should be only penalising for obvious infringements, not to make their presence felt. I like a game where the ref is barely seen. Its time they were instructed thus.
     
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  10. niccipops

    niccipops un echidna spillo mia bevanda Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    When it comes to Manly, discretional penalties means that the ref penalises us at his own discretion. By order of Todd GreenEggs&Ham.
    I do not like Green Eggs and Ham.
    His bald head, I'd like to slam!
     
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  11. weev

    weev Well-Known Member

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    Refs can win or lose games for ya. Wonder if they get approached by betting crooks, or chooks or those selling slabs of spam?
     
  12. mjb136

    mjb136 MWSE fanatic Premium Member

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    *discretional
     
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  13. nightster

    nightster grumpy old bastard

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    at least in union the refs play a decent advantage rule
     
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  14. Bearfax

    Bearfax Well-Known Member

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    Its actually a dreadful advantage rule...at least with many refs. The play can go on for another 1-2 minutes and suddenly called back for an infringement. Sometimes the game has moved through numerous plays and further down field and for some innocuous transgression, at times not even intentional, its all called back for the penalty.

    No. Heaven help us if we ever had that happening in League
     
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  15. nightster

    nightster grumpy old bastard

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    I was talking about it being used in the NRL sense for the professional foul type penalty when the attacking side is robbed of a scoring opportunity as is constantly happening at the moment ... of course it would be for when the attackers regained or retained possession
     
  16. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to see the breakdown of ruck penalties per team
     
  17. maxta

    maxta Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I totally agree with the threads worth....thing is, Manly need to take the control away from refs decisions, bad bounces, rub of the green ect.
    While watching the game, was blowing up at certain calls like these penalties, forward passes that were blatant....but the best teams overcome adversity.
    The Manly of 2008 - 2011 premiership winning teams copped similar, but refused to let it dictate the outcome.
    I don't expect the refs to change - the commentary to not show its anti Manly bias, or the media to stop looking for kinks in the Manly armour....what I do expect to change is a more fluent Manly, winning plenty of games through the rest of the season & improving....hopefully to a point where the men with the whistles, can't have more say on the game than the players performances do.
     
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  18. manlywarringah

    manlywarringah Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I hate the tip sheet the refs get at training.

    Apparently they get told which club has a tendency to do certain indiscretions. For instance I think Manly was spotted for hand on the ball.

    When I heard that (a couple of years ago) I noticed we were always getting blown for penalties for hand on the ball yet our opposition wasn't.

    It also makes sense why no team EVER drops the ball against us, it is always deemed a strip as the refs assume we had our hands on the ball for it to come out. (Note roosters game for 3? Stripping penalties)

    It infuriates me as the refs have pre-determined ideas and blow penalties that aren't really there & ignore the other team who do the same.

    Get rid of the tip sheet & lets have the refs officiate what's in front of them.
     
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  19. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    need to get the tip sheet leaked and get Baz to read it at the press conference
     
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  20. KOMORI

    KOMORI Born and bred an Eagle

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    Been chilling out at home for a few days, work is quiet so I'm resting up my "good" knee which has decided to eat it's own cartilage...

    Watching some classic games, from the halcyon days of the Winfield Cup, and you know what I've NOT noticed??

    The referees.

    Games are being won or lost on heroic plays, brutal, never say die defensive efforts and footballing magic. Games are changed by a great tackle or a magic ball or (in this case) because Backdoor Bennie missed a field goal and Steve Jackson decided that no_one was going to stop him, no matter frikking WHAT.

    The referee lets the game flow and the football dictate who wins or loses. There's none of these grey area b*ll**** penalties that leg-up a team back into the game, or alternatively kill the momentum of the team dominating.

    Effectively, the bloke with the whistle is anonymous: rarely intervening and definitely NOT influencing the outcome of the game.

    Today's referees feel that they are the "star" of the show, a legacy built by Hollywood Harrigon and facilitated by the NRL, as it's a way to control not only the game, but the OUTCOME.

    Edit: I've just noticed that it's Bill himself refereeing this game, and he just let these two behemoth teams go at it (Balmain v Canberra, 1989 GF)!

    Without fact checking, I'd guess the average penalties given per game in the pre-Hollywood days may have been 7-8 per game: now, it's not uncommon to see penalty counts of 8-10 per TEAM, per GAME!! Effectively 18-20 penalties per game, which over 80 minutes averages out at around 4-5 minutes of play for every penalty. And you'll find that 90% of penalties given are these mythical "ruck infringements". A perfect way to ensure that you can dictate which team gets on top: simply pour on the grey area penalties until the team you want takes the ascendancy. Then, of course, a few square-up penalties to even out the count when the game is beyond doubt..

    Even better, is that the referees can then point to a team's "lack of discipline" in the ruck, and all the talking heads nod in agreement and talk about how it was "poor discipline" that cost them the game, yet never, f**king EVER note that both teams were as bad (or good) as each other, yet one team got hammered for it whilst the other team seemingly got off Scott free..

    And nothing will be done while a slimy sh*tball like Greenturd is in charge, as it's control of every facet of the game that he wants: unbiased referees would undermine his influence on the game itself and limit his ability to help or hinder teams to just the draw (with which, I might add, we've been royally f**ked yet AGAIN!).

    Gets me so wound up, what these bastards have done to my game.

    It's not a frikken PRODUCT.

    We are not CLIENTS.

    It's RUGBY LEAGUE.

    And more and more, you're hurting the game I love.
     
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