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DCE and Foz

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by simon64, Oct 14, 2014.

  1. simon64

    simon64 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Reading through various threads, there seems to be universal acceptance of DCE's value to the club, but opinion seems to be divided on just how crucial it is for the club to retain Foz.

    And now matter how I try to look at it, I can't come up with a single scenario to justify this.

    For mine, the retention of both players is vital to our success. I don't see another five eighth like Foz in the competition. JLJ is not an option for mine. NSW Cup player at best.

    Given that Foz has been so praised by most here over the past 2 years (in terms of player of the year votes), it's a bit bemusing to me.

    So, in people's opinion, how important is the retention of each and if you were Dave Perry, how much would you be paying to make sure they stay ?

    For mine, I can't split them. I'd like to see them both sign for a minimum of 3 more years (but I'd pen 4 year deals if I could) and I think about 750-800 a year is about the money.

    They're both not just quality players but quality blokes too.
     
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  2. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Id give DCE what he is worth. Foran is meh, or was since his hissy fit. We won a GF with Lyon at 5/8 only 5 years ago, so there are options.

    Not into Foran AT ALL, and yep, it's all about his cancerous attitude.

    Id still play Brett Stewart at 5/8 to prolong his career, bring Gutherson or put Hiku back there.

    Time for Gutherson to step up.

    Id then consider releasing Matai if thats his wish, and playing Blair. Or that Williame.

    Anthony Watmough goes, and we use Horo, Buhrer, Symonfs and Lui in the backrow.

    If Wolf is here still, play him.

    If Brett Stewart then farks off as well, my team is:

    01. Clinton Gutherson
    02. Jorge Taufua
    03. Peta Hiku
    04.
    05. David Williams
    06. Jamie Lyon
    07. Daly Cherry-Evans
    08. Jake Trbojevic
    09. Matt Ballin
    10. Brenton Lawrence
    11. Justin Horo
    12. Tom Symonds
    13. Jamie Buhrer

    14.
    15. Josh Starling
    16. Jese Sene-Lefao
    17. Dunamis Lui

    With all the cancer cut out of the team, use that huge amount of cap space to sign Mason for the 14 on low $$$$, and a marquee centre as our big acquisition.

    The best part about that team is that I hope everyone wants to be here, and isnt a trouble maker.

    We should be WELL under the cap, young, and still competitive.

    See if Toovey can cut a deal for Hoppa to return for Watmough.

    Will Hopoate / Willie Mason then being our key acquisitions.
     
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  3. Masked Eagle

    Masked Eagle Well-Known Member

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    I agree @simon64, both are crucial and to see either going to other clubs greatly hurts our premiership chances and increases that of whoever they go too.

    DCE is probably viewed as more important simply because he probably gets his hands on the ball more often, but Foran is just as important. How often has he come up with the big defensive play when needed or a crucial run to get us out of trouble. Both are leaders, both are guns and to see either playing in an opposition jersey will hurt immensely.
     
  4. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Id be glad to see one gone if it meant a happy playing group. Let Foran press all his demands at another club. There was an article saying Foran may be the next 1 mill per season player.

    I want someone to tell me who will pay him that (25% of a teams cap).

    Going by his last 10 weeks, I think he should have to fight and prove why he should be in 1st grade to begin with.
     
  5. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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  6. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    We simply won't be able to retain both. The interest from other clubs is massive and will push both asking prices above the $1 million mark. On that basis I would rather retain DCE because halfback is a more difficult position to replace and because of the aforementioned cancerous attitude from Foran.

    Foran will NOT take unders to stay. He has made it clear that in his view the club shafted Gifty after he took unders for years and so he won't do the same.

    If anyone here thinks we can realistically have 2 $1 million plus players on our books then you are seriously deluded. We will have to choose between them, there is nothing surer.
     
  7. COMMANDER

    COMMANDER IF YOU DO NOT TRY YOU CAN NOT FAIL 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    5/8's have to make too many tackles these days, it would shorten Snakes career not pro long it.
     
  8. IQofalimabean

    IQofalimabean Well-Known Member

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    If the forward pack isn't the best in the competition you need a half that can generate good kick meters preferably two halves. I think foran is a great player but his kick meters would pale in comparison to Soward or even Lyon.
     
  9. simon64

    simon64 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    As a Maths teacher, this is the most concerning part of Ryan's post KE. :p
     
  10. Killer03

    Killer03 Well-Known Member

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    Ignoring any potential issues in terms of attitudes etc. To me both are quality, but only one is very hard to replace. I do believe we can replace Foran, potentially with Killer but also hard running 5/8, backrowers etc with some ball skills are easier (I said easier, not easy) to get than a quality half back.

    If you look around the comp who really are the quality halves? Cronk, Thurston, DCE........that's probably really about it. Then there's the 2nd tier who are ok, Pearce, Hodkinson, Hunt, Johnson.
     
  11. Disco

    Disco Well-Known Member

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    We can and should sign both!
     
  12. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    So when they are both offered $1.25 million elsewhere, and that's what will happen, you are suggesting we tie up $2.5 million of the $6.8 million cap in 2016 in 2 players from a squad of 25. That will leave $4.3 million for the remaining 23 players, an average of $186,956 per player.

    Good Luck with that equation.
     
  13. niccipops

    niccipops un echidna spillo mia bevanda Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    What about the marque player thing? This could be Cherry.
    Oh wait, we support Manly.:rolleyes: We won't be allowed one.

    Let's not be too harsh on Foz at this stage. When he and Cherry went to visit the young girl with cancer, Foz in his Manly gear said,
    "Something like this puts things into perspective."

    Give him some time.
     
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  14. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    I think they work better as a pair, i.e. their sum is worth more than adding the 2 up as individuals.

    Each of their weaknesses is the others strength
     
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  15. tookey

    tookey Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    He turned up to mad Monday so this must mean he is staying
     
  16. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Ryan works for a bank, so enough said. He was factoring in fees and commissions.
     
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  17. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Even allowing for that, if you factor in that we would be paying way above the $186k average left over to Killer, Matai, Brett, Ballin, Buhrer, Hiku, Lawrence and Choc if he stays, then the remaining 15 or so players would have to be on the minimum wage at best. No matter which way you look at it, no team can afford more than one player who commands more than $1 million unless they are prepared to take unders, which it would appear neither Cherry or Foran are prepared to do.

    We need to face the reality that one of them will go at teh end of next season.
     
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  18. Disco

    Disco Well-Known Member

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    If Melbourne can fit in Slater, Cronk and Smith then we can fit in Cherry and Foz

    Hayne & Hoppa are on 800k+
    Burges and Inglis would have both been on big deals
    If fact nearly every club has 2 or 3 players that would be eating up a huge chunk of the cap

    Also i think 1.25mil is overstating things, both may hit 1mil.

    Now remember the salary cap is not simple as you make out, with third party deals, marque player allowances and long serving players allowances you can't simply say $186k per player remaining

    Fifita's dogs deal (which obviously didn't come to fruition) was almost half made up of third party deals

    Particularly if we release Watmough and we can front end some deals
     
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  19. tookey

    tookey Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    The $1m for each will include substantial 3rd party sponsors so the amount included under the cap will only be about $800k for each

    Besides we will have plenty of money available under the cap when Watmong and snake leave this year.
     
  20. simon64

    simon64 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I don't think it will hit 1.25 million either.

    Maybe it might go over the 800K I suggested, but I wouldn't imagine it would be by much. Both players are extremely marketable, so I wouldn't imagine third party deals would be as big an issue is it may be for others.

    I can't agree with the view that losing either of these players would be "not that big a deal". We get a semi-decent pack and our backs will be cutting sides to pieces again pretty quickly.

    I hope the powers that be value DCE and Foz as much as the fans do. I'd love nothing more than to read they've signed deals that keep them at Manly for a long time. Maybe not Buddy Franklin deals but 4 years would be great.
     

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