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Creativity

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by ads, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. ads

    ads Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it has become clear over the last few years that Des has ZERO creativity as a coach (just like as a player).

    The worst part is he seems to coach it out of players, or refuse to let players demonstrate it. He obviously wasn't happy with Monas who had the creativity (if not always the execution), he bought Orford who has none and he has poorly used and is starting to constrict players like Cuthbertson who showed a spark.
     
  2. KaZa

    KaZa Well-Known Member

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    orford is a joke. who wouldnt take Monas for $250,000 now? with 250k to spare on another player. Would Warrington want to swap?

    Gower is available? Henjack? (sp?).. who else is available.. if no other player is brought in. this season is a write off.
     
  3. willstyles

    willstyles Active Member

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    Manly have shot themselves in the foot for the way they treated Monaghan and for putting all their creative eggs in one million dollar basket (Ox and Lyon). Now we have one person only (ox) to fill two positions in the halves - and it just can't work.

    Last year was our peak year it seems - our best chance to win the comp. Now we're on a pretty slippery downward spiral and the club will turn it's focus onto getting a young half, or ideally two, to replace Ox.

    But who is the answer?

    Eddie Paea? Poorly treated at Souths, very talented, still young, clearly has a future in first grade...but he wants to stay with Souths. He'd need to get f*cked over for months before that love began to fade.
    Liam Foran? Has the brother connection at Manly, his family live around here, might want to return home etc. Another talented kid, off-contract at the Storm as well, but who would want to leave the set-up that the Storm have for developing players?
     
  4. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Someone I know in the coaching staff says that Des coaches the team to play what is in front of them rather than to a set pattern. The belief is that the side can adapt to whatever situations in which they find themselves.

    The other side of the coin is that the teams that make the least mistakes win games through greater possession.

    We have good defence and we put pressure on other sides. We just lack the extra creative ball-player we  need and maybe one damaging running forward.  I personally don't believe that Monaghan is the lost Messiah and in many ways our attack was more popgun when he was half prior to Orford.

    In the hysteria following last nights loss many stupid things are being said.
     
  5. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Just a few things to ponder as i read through all the topics.

    Des has a track record of improvement every year he has been at the club, and has made average players perform at a higher level. Doesn't always get things right, but has a reasonable track record, that is now being put to the ultimate test

    Now we flip the coin over to the Silvertails posters track record, here are some things from the memory.

    The worst decision the club had made in a long time was getting rid of Orford and buying Kimmorley

    Monaghan is useless and should be punted, Max did wrong by stepping in to keep him here

    The signing of Orford 3 years ago was a great signing, as we finally have a top line halfback

    Orford is ****, terrible halfback who can't get the job done

    The club made a terrible decision letting Monaghan go

    Robertson was a waste of space signing, was a useless player.

    Des has no clue for playing a centre out of position in the 5/8 position

    The cure to that problem is to move Manlys Greatest backrower into there, a backrower that has played 2 NRL games into there, or a hooker who has played 3 games for the club into there
     
  6. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Stop thinking your better than everybody Canteen. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and just because it may not be the same as yours, doesn't mean it's stupid.

    No-one is saying Monaghan is the messiah...what people are saying is that we appeared more creative with him in our team.

    Orford just isn't much chop at the moment either.
     
  7. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    The reason he moves a backrower or hooker there is that there is either no discernibly talented 5/8's in the lower grades or Des doesn't have the balls to give them a go. Which is it ??

    Look at the Tigers, they lose Marshall and they drag up some youngster (Moltzen) to seemingly do a pretty good job. The Knights seem to have a plethora of young halves to draw on, Mullen, Dureau, etc. Even the Panthers had Wallace and Sammut waiting around for Gower to go.

    I guess a lot of sides use a stop gap 5/8 when injury hits

    Cowboys (Smith)
    Broncos (Stagg / Carroll / Ennis)
    Eels (Mateo)
    Sharks (Bird)
    Dragons (Young)

    It's not an unusual occurence, just means that the onus falls squarely on the shoulders of the remaining playmaker to run the attack, in our case Orford. I think Brett Stewart needs to get more involved closer to the ruck. Everyone has figured out Orfords second man cut out behind the decoy play, and they are sweating on it. Melbourne picked him off ad nauseum last night, as did the Sharks, Knights and Warriors (even though we flogged them). It's the most repetitious and telegraphed attacking play in the NRL. Give Stewy a go on the opposite side of the ruck to Orford a few times as an option, it might even take some pressure of Orford, and heaven forbid put a bit of doubt in the defense's mind.  
     
  8. Berkeley_Eagle

    Berkeley_Eagle Current Status: 24/7 Manly Fan 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Des has the creative lesson planned for this week

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  9. PONTIAN SEA EAGLE

    PONTIAN SEA EAGLE Well-Known Member

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    How deep were we on our line last night no wonder melbourne were able to charge at us 100 miles per hour similar to the grand final.Oh & the other thing des wake up it's quick play the balls that make you yards & win you games.
     
  10. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Stop thinking your better than everybody Canteen. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and just because it may not be the same as yours, doesn't mean it's stupid.

    No-one is saying Monaghan is the messiah...what people are saying is that we appeared more creative with him in our team.

    Orford just isn't much chop at the moment either.
    [/quote]I am as entitled to my view as anyone. Noone claims to be better than anyone else. It is just called perspective and a different opinion. Some of the claims re coaching, player changes etc are bordering on the ridiculous and I will call it as I see it.
     
  11. ads

    ads Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to point out I've been saying this stuff before this lost. Quite vocally  in real life and also a few times on this board. I'd also note that a fair number of commentators/reporters are mentioning the lack of Monas.
     
  12. Garts

    Garts Well-Known Member

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    If we had Monnas at half with no Orford would have the results been different?  No way in the world they would have been as Monas could also not handle the attack on his own either.
     
  13. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    monas is gone, he wont be coming back. there is no point comparing the two as the playing roster is different etc etc.

    we need a 5/8 to have a 2nd option even if it just buys some time.
     
  14. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I'd like to see Des get a bit creative.  Move Stewart to 5/8.  He's sharp, has a brain, can tackle and kick.  Bani at fullback,  Matai and Lyon at centre, Robbo stays on the wing.  C & C is right, Orford's attacking plays are predictable and often poorly executed.  Just how long is Orford's contract? 
     
  15. willstyles

    willstyles Active Member

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    We've still got him on contract next year as well (and it goes up once again.....so he'll actually be sucking up even more cap space than he is this year) unless we can find a sucker club stupid enough to take him.
     
  16. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Orford is with Manly for yonks. We need to find the right style to utilise his good points. To his credit he has been more robust this year and shown more grit in defense. He is a lot better than the next half we have!!! Who????
     
  17. willstyles

    willstyles Active Member

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    Yeah, that's just as heart-breaking though. He's working his arse off there and trying to do a lot, but nothing is coming off for him. To be blunt....he's really just not that good.  Certainly not good enough to run a team without another dominant playmaker taking all the pressure off him (whether it be from five-eighth or hooker).
     
  18. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    *Bump*

    Thoughts now people ?
     
  19. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    5th
     
  20. Corso_Pete

    Corso_Pete Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Just goes to show that most here (myself included) know jack S**t about what it takes to have a successful NRL side.
     

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