eagles2win
Bencher
Shoe1 said:
They use to say the exact same thing about Freddy. They knew the sidestep was coming but no one could defend it
Brett Stewart Pet Play Technical Flaws.
- Thread starter Technical Coach
- Start date
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They use to say the exact same thing about Freddy. They knew the sidestep was coming but no one could defend it
G-land Express
Reserve Grader
The Who said:
I spotted that too. He's fast bringing the bat up but too slow bringing it back down again. Needs to tap the bat harder into the ground as well while hes waiting for the bowler. He also doesn't play with his box as much as he used to.
Technical Coach
Bencher
The main problem is we don't flood the right side with enough hole runners compared to the left offering more attacking options and play variations. Back end of last year and through the semi's this area improved with occasionally Rodney, Big Joe and G.Rose running flat off the hip of DCE which was direct and sharp.
Also in the back end of the season you had Jamie Lyon adding some straight hole running lines not just receiving deep ball with the standard dance/fend play he uses.
Compared with the left side flood of hole running options with T.Williams, Watmough, Buhrer and the odd G.Rose play combined with a hole running Matai and Brett Stewart lurking inside and out plus a strong running sharp Foran(in comparison to G.Stewart) and you start to see where we can make huge improvements.
Second half of the season Foran looked stale and predictable---yes he was probably injured and fatigued---yes DCE started to take over with less emphasis on Foran to come up with well executed plays but i think being posted on the left is boring him a little.
Sometimes Foran is overly predictable trying to set up an outside runner instead of straightening or playing off his inside hip(gets sidetracked looking to his left)---the Brett Stewart inside play off Foran came at just the right time to reinvigorate Forans options. This is one area i want Foran to keep improving by straightening and looking to his inside beyond the Stewart play or going himself at the back end of halves otherwise we will see many StGeorge at the Gong performances.(yes i know he was injured early in that game)
I stated this last year but i would like to see Brett Stewart as a decoy more often even going to the point of deliberately telegraphing his plays early to set up the decoy later.
If you slow mo the 10m:46sec Foran inside ball to Stewart play (WCC) the marker splits and easily reads the play. I would like to see another runner behind Stewart so the pass goes to the second runner targeting the huge gap the marker has left behind stretching out to get Stewart. It could be a cross over play with an outside back running back inside behind Stewart or just a simple deeper second runner hitting the hole.
Also in the back end of the season you had Jamie Lyon adding some straight hole running lines not just receiving deep ball with the standard dance/fend play he uses.
Compared with the left side flood of hole running options with T.Williams, Watmough, Buhrer and the odd G.Rose play combined with a hole running Matai and Brett Stewart lurking inside and out plus a strong running sharp Foran(in comparison to G.Stewart) and you start to see where we can make huge improvements.
Second half of the season Foran looked stale and predictable---yes he was probably injured and fatigued---yes DCE started to take over with less emphasis on Foran to come up with well executed plays but i think being posted on the left is boring him a little.
Sometimes Foran is overly predictable trying to set up an outside runner instead of straightening or playing off his inside hip(gets sidetracked looking to his left)---the Brett Stewart inside play off Foran came at just the right time to reinvigorate Forans options. This is one area i want Foran to keep improving by straightening and looking to his inside beyond the Stewart play or going himself at the back end of halves otherwise we will see many StGeorge at the Gong performances.(yes i know he was injured early in that game)
I stated this last year but i would like to see Brett Stewart as a decoy more often even going to the point of deliberately telegraphing his plays early to set up the decoy later.
If you slow mo the 10m:46sec Foran inside ball to Stewart play (WCC) the marker splits and easily reads the play. I would like to see another runner behind Stewart so the pass goes to the second runner targeting the huge gap the marker has left behind stretching out to get Stewart. It could be a cross over play with an outside back running back inside behind Stewart or just a simple deeper second runner hitting the hole.
can we wait until the season starts before we start critiquing our perceived flaws.
I like how indepth you are and I don't know that you are wrong, but honestly how many plays are 100% effective?
I have been more excited about seeing what Toovey has done with our halves, Foran with a little more mongrel, not that he needs it, and DCE with a bit of the same plus more confidence.
I am also excited about seeing Tooveys first blow up at Harrigan and the refs, it's going to be just like the old days, and I can see a few $10,000 fines coming up
I like how indepth you are and I don't know that you are wrong, but honestly how many plays are 100% effective?
I have been more excited about seeing what Toovey has done with our halves, Foran with a little more mongrel, not that he needs it, and DCE with a bit of the same plus more confidence.
I am also excited about seeing Tooveys first blow up at Harrigan and the refs, it's going to be just like the old days, and I can see a few $10,000 fines coming up
Technical Coach
Bencher
Nothing wrong in critiquing last years style and weak points as a bases for constructive ideas---why do people here think spotting weaknesses and flaws and commenting on them is a negative outlook.
A negative outlook is bagging players and coaches individually or starting rumours from so called "i have inside info look at me types"
Yes all plays will have effective days and non effective days that goes without saying but this is also a simple outlook and a boring one to me. Manly in comparison to other clubs are obviously doing many things better than others to be in 3 gfs over the last 5yrs i just prefer to look at what we do well and tweak it better.
What others see as "just fine it works well" i say yeah it works now but how can i prolong it's effectiveness so it continues to work beyond half a season or 1yr down the track. You can sometimes go too far and analyse things too much and yes sometimes the old "If it aint broke,don't fix it" should apply but most times that saying is a lazy copout.
A negative outlook is bagging players and coaches individually or starting rumours from so called "i have inside info look at me types"
Yes all plays will have effective days and non effective days that goes without saying but this is also a simple outlook and a boring one to me. Manly in comparison to other clubs are obviously doing many things better than others to be in 3 gfs over the last 5yrs i just prefer to look at what we do well and tweak it better.
What others see as "just fine it works well" i say yeah it works now but how can i prolong it's effectiveness so it continues to work beyond half a season or 1yr down the track. You can sometimes go too far and analyse things too much and yes sometimes the old "If it aint broke,don't fix it" should apply but most times that saying is a lazy copout.
MK Eagle
Bencher
The play only needs alternate options against a quality slide defence - agreed - apart from that its not an issue Toovey will take notes to cash in on. Theres no doubt the Seaeagles will again be prominent in most tries scored in 2012 -a minor concern.
More options - true - but watch the extra opportunities these halves put on the table in 2012.
More options - true - but watch the extra opportunities these halves put on the table in 2012.
Interesting posts Technical coach and keep them coming. I agree we can't just rest on our laurels here and say because it all worked last year it's all going to work again this year. We have to adapt, improvise and fine tune what we have in order to keep the success rolling along.Make no mistake the other 15 teams have been working their guts out to overcome us and defending a title is even harder than winning one.
As Ben farrer has been part of that play, as he is also a posability to play wing, he should add in both awareness and bodies in motion. As both wingers have moved on, as have the coach, its fair to say this may be very different in 2012.
cherry is one year on, as is his combination with FOZ. T rex looks to have made a starting back row spot his, so he will be invaluable as a decoy.
Last year was last year, bretts confidence was down a bit, but grew as the year went on. Many parts of this puzzle have changed. We have seen one game this year, that had different referee interpretation, was played in very different conditions and the team was rusty
I thought they made some great plays considering . Have the manly squad learnt how to pass left right yet ? Surely that is the No 1 priority
cherry is one year on, as is his combination with FOZ. T rex looks to have made a starting back row spot his, so he will be invaluable as a decoy.
Last year was last year, bretts confidence was down a bit, but grew as the year went on. Many parts of this puzzle have changed. We have seen one game this year, that had different referee interpretation, was played in very different conditions and the team was rusty
I thought they made some great plays considering . Have the manly squad learnt how to pass left right yet ? Surely that is the No 1 priority
Brett Stewart struggles to understand Technical Coach's simple instructions
Technical Coach
Bencher
bob dylan said:
I totally disagree---Farrar has untapped class and showed it in his last year. Safe under the bomb(people only recall his earlier efforts where he did struggle)---chimed into the backline nicely even replicating some of Bretts plays minus the same speed---nice pass on him and can play off the cuff ( i recall a nice grubber for himself and regather try against Souths at Homebush.)
Even showed some good reads as the last line of defence in his last year also---i'm sure he is going to look rusty to start with though.
SeaEagleRock8 said:
Brett Stewart struggles to understand Technical Coach's simple instructions
No Matt Parish is telling Brett that he is over-doing the no look pass especially when the only option is the winger---no look passes should be saved for looking at the second man option and pass to the flat lead runner or looking at the lead and passing to the second man. To a lesser extent and a more risky attempt of a no look pass is throwing a face ball across the center and to the winger.
Brett lacks a natural passes game it looks awkward and forced---his best attributes are speed, positional play, safe under the high ball and his class when he chimes into the backline---he is not a ballplayer.
jjai said:
No it's just this play that is not being executed to it's potential and reducing it's current effectiveness----it works well when there is ample space to move allowing Brett to outpace the cover defence into the corner or a defence that is struggling to get numbers. Now this play just looks pretty and usually ends up with an almost try that amounts to a play the ball in the corner---we need more genuine shorter flatter options to reignite this play to hold the inside defence or draw in the outside defenders.
Oh how dare i say anything critical about anyone who's last name is Stewart i'm soooo not a true supporter....(yes i am a Brett Stewart fan)
Masked Eagle
Bencher
Technical Coach said:bob dylan said:
I totally disagree---Farrar has untapped class and showed it in his last year. Safe under the bomb(people only recall his earlier efforts where he did struggle)---chimed into the backline nicely even replicating some of Bretts plays minus the same speed---nice pass on him and can play off the cuff ( i recall a nice grubber for himself and regather try against Souths at Homebush.)
Even showed some good reads as the last line of defence in his last year also---i'm sure he is going to look rusty to start with though.
SeaEagleRock8 said:
Brett Stewart struggles to understand Technical Coach's simple instructions
No Matt Parish is telling Brett that he is over-doing the no look pass especially when the only option is the winger---no look passes should be saved for looking at the second man option and pass to the flat lead runner or looking at the lead and passing to the second man. To a lesser extent and a more risky attempt of a no look pass is throwing a face ball across the center and to the winger.
Brett lacks a natural passes game it looks awkward and forced---his best attributes are speed, positional play, safe under the high ball and his class when he chimes into the backline---he is not a ballplayer.
jjai said:
No it's just this play that is not being executed to it's potential and reducing it's current effectiveness----it works well when there is ample space to move allowing Brett to outpace the cover defence into the corner or a defence that is struggling to get numbers. Now this play just looks pretty and usually ends up with an almost try that amounts to a play the ball in the corner---we need more genuine shorter flatter options to reignite this play to hold the inside defence or draw in the outside defenders.
Oh how dare i say anything critical about anyone who's last name is Stewart i'm soooo not a true supporter....(yes i am a Brett Stewart fan)
WOW. Couldn't be more wrong TC about Snakes passing game. Its might looked forced but its spot on, he hits his wingers with flat passes on the chest from good distant and they don't have to break stride. That's exactly what you want to happen. His flat 20m no look pass to a flying Michael Robertson in the 08 GF is perfection personified. You don't throw passes like that from luck. Slater and Minichello have awkward passing games, Snake is up there with the best passing no 1s in the game. I'd say he and Matt Bowen are streets ahead of the field. He has outstanding hand eye co-ordination which is prevelant in the numerous highlights seen throughout his career.
I usually don't mind your posts, but to suggest Snake isn't a ball player is really going to far. Death by analysis.
Also paraphrasing you a little bit, but did you just say Farrar was great under the high ball ... except when he drops it? You want to talk about poor technique he has it in bucketloads under a bomb. He tries taking them with his hands and most of his drops were all the same with his arms being close to pointing towards the ground than the sky. You want to wrap Farrar as having untapped class because of a grubber kick, but somehow turn a blind eye to the Snake career highlight reel as he looks awkward.
As I said I usually don't mind your posts, but I think your way off the mark here.
MK Eagle
Bencher
Tc - you are losing the plot here.
The initial thread regarding the move a tad predictable was fair, with the point that some variation would keep the defences guessing.
Also agree that the Illawarra slide defence 2010 caught this move out on several occasions. However, At speed this play does, has & will, produce many tries. These Options as we call them will also increase with the rookie halves growing rapidly with their play selection.
Bretts passing game is exceptional & then throw in his freak passes up there with the best in the last 20 years gifting tries to DCE, Matai & Bell in the 08 GF.
Tooves was an international & I,m sure if there are major flaws in this & other areas, it will be addressed.
Farrar safe under the high ball - not the Farrar I seen. Yes he adds utility value but thats where it stops. If we see lots of Farrar its a sign of major injury concerns. Cant fault his effort but falls short in strength, speed & at fullback & wing - poor positional play. His major card is hitting a hole which he does arguably as good as any NRL player but lacks the above to capitilise on it. Any more Farrar 5/8 talk & we call Bailey back.
Dont mind your general analysis but cant buy into this 1.
The initial thread regarding the move a tad predictable was fair, with the point that some variation would keep the defences guessing.
Also agree that the Illawarra slide defence 2010 caught this move out on several occasions. However, At speed this play does, has & will, produce many tries. These Options as we call them will also increase with the rookie halves growing rapidly with their play selection.
Bretts passing game is exceptional & then throw in his freak passes up there with the best in the last 20 years gifting tries to DCE, Matai & Bell in the 08 GF.
Tooves was an international & I,m sure if there are major flaws in this & other areas, it will be addressed.
Farrar safe under the high ball - not the Farrar I seen. Yes he adds utility value but thats where it stops. If we see lots of Farrar its a sign of major injury concerns. Cant fault his effort but falls short in strength, speed & at fullback & wing - poor positional play. His major card is hitting a hole which he does arguably as good as any NRL player but lacks the above to capitilise on it. Any more Farrar 5/8 talk & we call Bailey back.
Dont mind your general analysis but cant buy into this 1.
Technical Coach
Bencher
MK Eagle said:
People keep harping on about how Farrar started out---yes he did have major issues when he started at fullback with the high ball but by the back end of the season most of the channel 9 commentators were amazed with the improvement.
During that year i actually wanted to move Farrar to Half and play a Ben Hornby style of play as i could see Hodkinson very early on was not going to create much and was already plateauing out as a player.
Brett's passing game is not exceptional far from it. There is no correlation between freak passing and having an exceptional passing game they are not even related.(even though your comment split the two but near enough to make them complimentary) Exceptional passing is not where you run at speed and hit the winger with a long pass that does not make you a passing talent.
It's the ability to create holes with deceptive hands the ability to have soft hands the ability to fire a face ball while playing at the line the leaning of the body to give an impression of one thing and doing the opposite playing with time and composure always having more than one option etc etc.
Bretts passing is just average what you would expect from most fullbacks these days with the exception of having athletic freak passes in him---Jarrod Hayne has an exceptional passing game there is a huge gap between the two in relation to passing. The same goes with Brett kicking a ball it is ugly to watch----it shows Brett is a natural athletic person but not one of exceptional individual skills--- this does not mean i would swap him for anyone else just his skills are in other areas.
Also i never stated that this play will not work and yes it will still create tries but not to the same effectiveness as the past---or more importantly when you need a try. I would rather this play work when you really need it to work than admire it working in 20-30-40 point drubbing games and saying "look it's worked 13 times this year and each one of those games we killed the opposition")
I'm not knocking the play at all just tweaking the running lines and adding more flatter options with genuine variations
| Team | P | W | L | PD | Pts |
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6 | 5 | 1 | 59 | 12 |
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6 | 5 | 1 | 20 | 12 |
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6 | 4 | 2 | 53 | 10 |
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6 | 4 | 2 | 30 | 10 |
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7 | 4 | 2 | 25 | 9 |
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7 | 4 | 3 | 40 | 8 |
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7 | 4 | 3 | 24 | 8 |
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7 | 4 | 3 | -8 | 8 |
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7 | 4 | 3 | -18 | 8 |
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7 | 3 | 3 | 20 | 7 |
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7 | 3 | 4 | 31 | 6 |
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7 | 3 | 4 | 17 | 6 |
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6 | 2 | 4 | -31 | 6 |
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7 | 3 | 4 | -41 | 6 |
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7 | 2 | 5 | -29 | 4 |
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6 | 1 | 5 | -102 | 4 |
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6 | 0 | 6 | -90 | 2 |
