Barrett and Fulton

[bringbackbeaver]

Gutho was unfortunate loss but at the time he was down the pecking order in regards to wingers/fullbacks and would have been wasted in reggies, ontop of that coming back from ACL tear and Parra offering starting spot could have been reason he was released.

Hiku is a great player but for some reason he seemed a lil overweight and slow the last year or two he played with us... great finisher though!

Knight is another gun but maybe his behavior was an issue??

Yep, all valid points. Although we are willing to give Hoppa a shot after a stint in Jail so I think as a club we are okay to give blokes a second/third chance. As we should be, in my opinion. Have to say, Gutho has grown a leg under BA and playing 6.

 

[Wombat Legacy]

Gutherson was a NSW and Australian Rep junior! We let him go

 

[Loobs]

Sorry Loobs, didn't realize we were not allowed to chat about selections/recruitment/retention issues on this site. I'll break the rule and go ahead, if it's okay with you. We took a punt on Walker and brought someone in (on who knows how much $$ but I think quite a lot more) for a proven back with far more versatility who kept out of trouble (and understood our culture) and just got on with it. Not every club makes that decision IMO. In saying that, I think Walker does have potential if he can grow up and just play some footy. In this day and age, you need to be able to behave off the field which he seems to really struggle with. I do hope you're right though and Walker goes good next year. We will see.

I have no issue with talking about recruitment but we've had a season to get over the loss of Hiku who was hammered here last season from pillar to post and now he's everything that we're missing.

 

[Loobs]

To all people saying Barrett is only in his first year at coach, well how did toovs go in his first year... Preliminary Finals. But I understand why this years been an utter failure, injuries and terrible depth in the backs (of which most injures occurred in). Next year we need to look closely at the injury back ups to see if we are capable of reaching the heights of the top 4 and with our side plus our best backline available should both Matai and Stewart return (risky as they can both suffer ongoing injuries in 2017 as well) the backline will look like...

1. Brett Stewart/Tom Trbojevic
2. Jorge Taufua
3. Dylan Walker
4. Steve Matai
5. Tom Trbojevic/Brett Stewart
6. Blake Green
7. Daly Cherry Evans

Then we have our sensational forwards and depth in the forwards... Upcoming stars in our forwards include

Willis Meehan
Jamil Hopoate
Shaun Lane
Addin Fonua Blake

Hopefully we can sign at least Gillett for the forwards, then use the 17 released player's money for some depth in the backs and maybe some more good signings.

lol Toovey inherited a team that just won the premiership.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Gutherson was a NSW and Australian Rep junior! We let him go

Not only did we let him go, we let him go to Parramatta. When Brad Arthur was out there gleefully plundering our players and doing his best to **** the club over, we went and gave him a free shot at a local junior we already had signed. That in itself was reason enough not to do it. Throw in the fact that Blind Freddy (ie, Brad Fittler when he's had a few) could see he had a lot of ability and could play fullback, wing, centre and six and it makes even less sense. That's not a retrospective judgement either - it made very little sense at the time and makes even less sense now.

 

[bringbackbeaver]

I have no issue with talking about recruitment but we've had a season to get over the loss of Hiku who was hammered here last season from pillar to post and now he's everything that we're missing.

I'm a newby mate so wasn't part of the Hiku getting hammered season...! Certainly don't think he's everything we are missing but for sure we are missing some outside backs... Would love to have him back next year but doesnt look likely. Although Lussick did come back...

 

[Deleted member 26876]

lol Toovey inherited a team that just won the premiership.

And last year he had a bottom 4 team because of our disastrous forwards yet he gave them the manly culture and made them push for the 8 only to fall short by one, toovs is one of the best coaches in the nrl and only at manly, as is des...

 

[Deleted member 26876]

lol Toovey inherited a team that just won the premiership.

Do you seriously think toovs couldn't coach?! Hahaha that's ridiculous there's gotta be an investigation!

 

[Loobs]

And last year he had a bottom 4 team because of our disastrous forwards yet he gave them the manly culture and made them push for the 8 only to fall short by one, toovs is one of the best coaches in the nrl and only at manly, as is des...

Where was the culture when they had to win against Parra at home to make the 8 and they laid down and it took it up the khyber?

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Where was the culture when they had to win against Parra at home to make the 8 and they laid down and it took it up the khyber?

Ask Kieran he was already on his way out? And oh what a surprise it was to parramatta. Now there seriously has got to be an investigation
Not really suggesting fozza was letting parra win because he was movin to em, just that he was on his way out so thought it was ok to take a bet with mr hayson.... Well that didn't work for him did it!

 

[Technical Coach]

we bought a boat load of new players for 2016,
we bought a new coach system etc...
2016 we ended up on 13 @ 20 points
2015 we were at 26 points on 9th
Thanks Toovey, you will always be a legend.

TB and whoever got you the job are all a fkn disgrace.
no matter which players you buy, u will never create a brotherly bond and war mentality that the sea eagles had,

Nuff Said

A half interested Foran in this years lineup would of generated 2-3 wins off the back of retained attacking structures, so i don't really see any difference between last year and this year other than at least this year the clean-out and replenishment are further in motion.

 

[Technical Coach]

I agree with most of the things TC but how can you compare Barrett with Ricky Stuart . What has Barrett done this year to show us that he is a quality coach ?
Also for all those that excuse Barrett for being a Rookie coach . WTF are we doing with a Rookie when we are rebuilding . We should have looked for an experienced proven coach for the job

I wasn't comparing Barrett and Stuart i was illustrating how most here bagged Stuart as a nothing Coach, i'm not saying Stuart is the greatest coach but he is not as bad as most made him out to be.

Manly is currently not the place for an experienced Coach finance wise, facilities wise and the cycle the team is in at the moment (rebuilding), we are an opportunity club.

As soon as Manly developed a proven Coach we lacked the foundations to really keep him and if the foundations and all round professionalism of the club does not improve the same situation will happen again.

The hope is like Hasler we pay on the low end of the scale coaching and staff wise(initially) and outperform, break even or make a little profit.

Best to rebuild and suffer poor performances while not outlaying too much on the coaching and back room staff. As the team rebuilds, matures, adds some depth,adds some team chemistry and a consistent lineup a quality Coach might see this potential and warm to taking advantage of the rebuild(in other words not having to start from the bottom)

What Barrett has to do is keep improving measurably each year, there is no room for small improvements for a rookie coach at an opportunity club, Hasler passed this stage and then some, now he has earned the position of forcing clubs to be patient with him. (be it good, bad,being a little lazy and content or past his prime)

 

[Jerry1]

I wasn't comparing Barrett and Stuart i was illustrating how most here bagged Stuart as a nothing Coach, i'm not saying Stuart is the greatest coach but he is not as bad as most made him out to be.

Manly is currently not the place for an experienced Coach finance wise, facilities wise and the cycle the team is in at the moment (rebuilding), we are an opportunity club.

As soon as Manly developed a proven Coach we lacked the foundations to really keep him and if the foundations and all round professionalism of the club does not improve the same situation will happen again.

The hope is like Hasler we pay on the low end of the scale coaching and staff wise(initially) and outperform, break even or make a little profit.

Best to rebuild and suffer poor performances while not outlaying too much on the coaching and back room staff. As the team rebuilds, matures, adds some depth,adds some team chemistry and a consistent lineup a quality Coach might see this potential and warm to taking advantage of the rebuild(in other words not having to start from the bottom)

What Barrett has to do is keep improving measurably each year, there is no room for small improvements for a rookie coach at an opportunity club, Hasler passed this stage and then some, now he has earned the position of forcing clubs to be patient with him. (be it good, bad,being a little lazy and content or past his prime)

Lol.. Not the place for an experienced coach... Hope you never run a company I work for...

 

[Technical Coach]

Lol.. Not the place for an experienced coach... Hope you never run a company I work for...

The last two years it hasn't been an attractive place for an experienced Coach to take charge---too much politics, ageing roster, professionalism and facilities stagnant at best.

In saying that if an experienced Coach is looking for a "challenge" Manly is a good place to take on, a mature intelligent fan base that is less reactive than some supporters(also helps a rookie coach)

I think there is potential if the right kind of purchases are made to compliment a stable skilled long term half, F/Back and decent hooker is a great platform to work from.

There just isn't enough excitement around the club that makes you believe it is going to grow and be professional---well not on the surface that is likely to attract a big name Coach unless we pay massive overs for----but i do think an astute gifted Coach can see Manly has a squad worth working with.

 

[conanu]

I wasn't comparing Barrett and Stuart i was illustrating how most here bagged Stuart as a nothing Coach, i'm not saying Stuart is the greatest coach but he is not as bad as most made him out to be.

Manly is currently not the place for an experienced Coach finance wise, facilities wise and the cycle the team is in at the moment (rebuilding), we are an opportunity club.

As soon as Manly developed a proven Coach we lacked the foundations to really keep him and if the foundations and all round professionalism of the club does not improve the same situation will happen again.

The hope is like Hasler we pay on the low end of the scale coaching and staff wise(initially) and outperform, break even or make a little profit.

Best to rebuild and suffer poor performances while not outlaying too much on the coaching and back room staff. As the team rebuilds, matures, adds some depth,adds some team chemistry and a consistent lineup a quality Coach might see this potential and warm to taking advantage of the rebuild(in other words not having to start from the bottom)

What Barrett has to do is keep improving measurably each year, there is no room for small improvements for a rookie coach at an opportunity club, Hasler passed this stage and then some, now he has earned the position of forcing clubs to be patient with him. (be it good, bad,being a little lazy and content or past his prime)

Very good points TC. Agree about building the coaching staff as performance improves it makes complete sense. I have a bad feeling Bozo thought we were top 8 at least this season and we weren't in a rebuild year until reality kicked in with some losses and now we are looked upon as a 1st year rebuild.

 

[conanu]

Yep, he was slow, a defensive liability, unfit & overweight & now he is one of the best players in the comp.

Groupthink has a habit of coming up with those anomallies.

I still think he was an average player not a superstar. We just replaced him with worse.

 

[HoldenV8]

Just on Gutho.....

While he has done well at doesn't-matta this year, and lately has shown that he has the makings of a good first grade 5/8, I do wonder if that would have been his position at Manly. I somehow doubt that he would be the long term solution to be DCE's halves partner. As we know DCE thrives on having an organising 5/8 next to him. He had that in Foran and he had it with Killer. But Gutho, for mine, would have been a bit too much like Walker in that respect (though more skillful).

Gutho as a centre or winger at Manly yes, as a 5/8 next to DCE.....I have my doubts.

Either way I wish he was still at Manly. Perfect replacement for Skivy next year if Steve's neck doesn't allow him to play on, and the perfect fit for the right wing for a year until Skivy retired. And a class goal kicker as well.

I still (partly) blame Mateo and Burgess though. If they had left when asked at the end of last season instead of digging their heels in and basically spending this year going through the motions in NSW Cup there wouldn't have been a need to cut either Gutho or Peta Hiku in order to sign Walker and Taupau. And had we been able to keep Gutho and Hiku, given the injuries we had this year its a fair bet both would have played a lot of first grade (I mean, just look at how much we had to play Wiliame and Wright.....).

 

[CBreeagles]

Just on Gutho.....

While he has done well at doesn't-matta this year, and lately has shown that he has the makings of a good first grade 5/8, I do wonder if that would have been his position at Manly. I somehow doubt that he would be the long term solution to be DCE's halves partner. As we know DCE thrives on having an organising 5/8 next to him. He had that in Foran and he had it with Killer. But Gutho, for mine, would have been a bit too much like Walker in that respect (though more skillful).

Gutho as a centre or winger at Manly yes, as a 5/8 next to DCE.....I have my doubts.

Either way I wish he was still at Manly. Perfect replacement for Skivy next year if Steve's neck doesn't allow him to play on, and the perfect fit for the right wing for a year until Skivy retired. And a class goal kicker as well.

I still (partly) blame Mateo and Burgess though. If they had left when asked at the end of last season instead of digging their heels in and basically spending this year going through the motions in NSW Cup there wouldn't have been a need to cut either Gutho or Peta Hiku in order to sign Walker and Taupau. And had we been able to keep Gutho and Hiku, given the injuries we had this year its a fair bet both would have played a lot of first grade (I mean, just look at how much we had to play Wiliame and Wright.....).

I was watching an Eels game on Fox a while back and Brandy mentioned that a bit into the off-season last year he had a chat with DCE about who his halves partner was going to be. He said that DCE said he was really surprised Gutho was let go because he could see him being best option.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Just on Gutho.....

While he has done well at doesn't-matta this year, and lately has shown that he has the makings of a good first grade 5/8, I do wonder if that would have been his position at Manly. I somehow doubt that he would be the long term solution to be DCE's halves partner. As we know DCE thrives on having an organising 5/8 next to him. He had that in Foran and he had it with Killer. But Gutho, for mine, would have been a bit too much like Walker in that respect (though more skillful).

Gutho as a centre or winger at Manly yes, as a 5/8 next to DCE.....I have my doubts.

Either way I wish he was still at Manly. Perfect replacement for Skivy next year if Steve's neck doesn't allow him to play on, and the perfect fit for the right wing for a year until Skivy retired. And a class goal kicker as well.

I still (partly) blame Mateo and Burgess though. If they had left when asked at the end of last season instead of digging their heels in and basically spending this year going through the motions in NSW Cup there wouldn't have been a need to cut either Gutho or Peta Hiku in order to sign Walker and Taupau. And had we been able to keep Gutho and Hiku, given the injuries we had this year its a fair bet both would have played a lot of first grade (I mean, just look at how much we had to play Wiliame and Wright.....).

Next time we have oxygen thieves like those two (Felatio and Turgid) digging their heels in, it might be worthwhile hiring a professional person who say, specialises in creating unfortunate accidents...

...just a thought..

 

[The Quirkster]

My problem with Barrett has always been about his decisions as regards how he picked the team every week.

I was confused when Api was hooker, Wright was 5/8 and Parcell was on the bench.

I was confused about Lewis Brown being in the centres.

I'm wondering why Mateo wasn't given more of a chance to be a roving forward. He was still a good player and could play 5/8. In saying that, though, I am not well informed enough to comment on whether his form in Reggies was worthy of being selected.

I was confused about Tom Symonds being let go, and still am. He was a better player than Brown and could play in the centres or in the forwards.

I was confused about the length of the Walker at 5/8 experiment. That took quite some time.

I don't think I can try to recall more of these poor decisions without causing myself a brain aneurism.

I do think that DCE was far from his best and that it seemed, at least to him, that the weight of all the attacking options (especially on the other team's line) were relying on him to spark the team.

He plays best when he runs at the line, ball in both hands, with support runners on either side. His little grubbers, which he never told any of the team about, from what I saw, were desperate acts.

Our try line moves were predictable and often got tangled up. Add to that that we really only have Turbo who has any speed in the backs. Our backs are not as quick as one might hope they'd be.

Our 2016 recruitment was very focused on forwards. At this time last year, it seemed, in my opinion (which is the right opinion), that Manly had thought we had enough depth in the backs to warrant letting go of Gutho, Hiku, and others. Look at Cheyse Blair. He's doing well at the Storm, well enough that they have re-signed him.

I think I went off on a massive tangent there.

Anyway, I do think that we have a good forward pack when they aren't injured (I wish that their injuries would bloody stop, but that's pure fantasy talk), and I think that if we can get a few backs for next year, AND that DCE can play to his potential, then we might be in the top 8 next year, with the next couple of years after that being a contender.

Wow. That paragraph was one sentence.

I know this is a long post, but if you unfocus your eyes you'll see a 3D image of Elvis within the message.



Okay, I made that up.