Back Tooves

[Snake]

Yes he does,he can start by watching our games from around 2008 and see how our attack and set plays have fallen away.He needs to re-invent our attack

completely different game now.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I love 2V just as much as the rest of you, but being a club legend does not guarantee that you are a star coach .

I don't know what goes on inside the club, or inside the team but I have to say at this stage they don't look real happy, and you know the old saying a champion team will beat a team of champions day in day out.

I think the media are against 2V, probably led by the revenge ridden leak BUT there could be more to it than just that.

Time will tell no doubt .

 

[Sideline Eye]

It's not getting the knives out, but a coach has a responsibility for the performance of the team and even with injuries, if we can't score more than 4 bloody points against the Dragons then questions have to be asked. This weekend was the tipping point for me...[/QUOTE

Whilst I agree the coach is responsible for the performance of the teams on field performance, elements beyond a coaches control such as injuries are not.

We need to bear in mind the game on Saturday night was without Matai, Lawrence and Tafua. Couple this with the fact Lyon, Starling and possibly Foran not being 100% fit and the fact we are now without Glenn and Watmough.

The team has had a number of new additions this season in Mateo, Mason and Luke who although experienced need to still find their feet within the team as its only round four.

I'm still of the belief this will be the beginning of the new growth phase for the team and admittedly will see us loose a few before we become a premiership force again. All teams go through it and this might be ours. The good times can't last forever and there is no point in putting the blame on the coach for whats not to say any other coach in Robinson, Hasler or Maguire would be any different when having to deal with an aging roster, halves which account for up to a third of the salary cap (based on their new contract worth) and a lack of size and aggression in the forward pack.

 

[mickqld]

Can anyone remember the last time Manly fielded their top first choice 1-17 in a game. I don't think we have in years.

 

[lsz]

I wonder if Kelly has come in ala Gould at Penrith & decided that this club needs the toxic environment & those responsible cleaned out. I get the feeling from that article on the juniors that they are tearing it down and trying to build from the juniors up. It'll take a couple of years of pain at firsts level but if it succeeds then I will congratulate them.

Agree 100%

 

[Loobs]

Yeah well Hasler knew what was coming which is why he ****ed off. And I agree - there is nothing wrong with blowing it up now and rebuilding to create another decade of dominance, but jeez, I'd hope even during a rebuild we'd be able to go toe to toe with the worst teams.

Positives out of all this though are that are 20's are firing - Penrith at 8th are the only other NSW team in the top 8, which says a lot. And if you look at first grade teams like Penrith then you'd know a strong 20's squad starts flowing through after a couple of years and makes a HUGE difference to your firsts. We just need to spend our sizeable cash pile wisely and make sure there is a new senior playing group is in position to guide and mentor those under 20's as they come through.

To that end it's great that Choc is gone and also Foz. I wouldn't want impressionable minds around those two jerks (throw DCE in there too). We need Kitey and BK types to be there in two years leading from the front, not being dickheads and showing them how a professional first grade outfit operates. Buhrer captain. Hodges at 9. Hiku < 10 kegs in there. Gutho too. Jake T starting. Guys that want to be there, love the jersey and are lead by a top coach, whoever that may be (Tooves can still be that guy).

 

[mickqld]

This year would be
1. Stewart
2. Blair
3. Lyon
4. Matai
5. Hiku
6. Foran
7. DCE
8. Lawrence
9. Ballin
10. Mason
11. Lui
12. Mateo
13. Buhrer

14. Starling
15. Burgess
16. Trbojevic
17. Leary

 

[Sideline Eye]

He inherited a star team. Dez took a team from the northern eagles days and every year improved the team, going from 5th, to 2nd to winning the GF and building a culture.
He then went and coached the dogs, who the year before were wooden spooner's and turned them into minor premiers in one year.

Toovey still has a quality team on paper but he is not getting the most out of the team. A true test of a good coach is taking an average team, or good team and turning them into a great team. Dez, Bellamy, Robinson, Mcguire, Cleary etc have all done this. Toovey is yet to prove he can do this. There are question marks over his relationship's with the players and whether he can take their game to another level, whether he can turn the avg joe type player into a solid regular performer, he's tactical approach to winning games, how he pumps the players up every week so they turn up with their heads on, if there are problems with attitude - how he goes about fixing this, if players are making too many errors, whether in attack or defense - can he fix these? All these questions are still to be answered. He has had a very good side to coach, right now they are under performing and this is the true test to see how he can turn this season around.

Did the Roosters, Dogs and Souths have the board room issues and factions which have been so heavily reported in the media for which the respective coaches of the aforementioned clubs had to deal with. Didn't Des, Robinson and Maguire also inherit a young team of quality players? I have not seen much change to the playing rosters of these teams in the past three seasons!

Didn't Des leave due to the infighting that was prevalent. Tooves managed to take this team to three finals in his time including a grand final and have to deal with an aging roster and a couple of halves which would take up a significant part of the salary cap which has limited the club from buying quality players, in particular forwards, in the past couple of seasons.as well as all the boardroom issues.

 

[Loobs]

There's probably a case to be made as well that if they are blowing it all up, then there is no hurry to sack Tooves. So long as they can make signings and build out the juniors then whoever coaches your ****ty rebuild years is quickly forgotten when you replace them and start the run back up to the top (which though doesn't bode well for Tooves overall career I suppose).

Anyone else feel like watching Toovey is like seeing the Peter principle in action?

 

[manlyfan76]

Can anyone remember the last time Manly fielded their top first choice 1-17 in a game. I don't think we have in years.

This is a massive reason why toovey is under any pressure percieved or other wise.
If we had a much less injury ravaged finals campaign last year and start to this year percepions would be much much better.

 

[EagleFlys]

With Penn now owning the club, watch for Hasler to speak out in the media "favourably" for Manly. He will use words of support, instead on feigning interest like he has done in the past 3 years.

It will be a sure sign that Penn has agreed to terms with him, and he will be welcomed back.

 

[Budgie]

Yep. It's just so bloody easy isn't it? If we believe the rumours, last year we had a bunch of senior players who had it in for the star half. Those players believed that they were responsible for all of the club's success after Des departed, not their 'water boy ' who took over as coach. Come this year, two of those senior players have gone, leaving behind one sulking sooky la la whose attitude surely must poison much around him. Add to that injuries, injuries, injuries, and yep, I'd wanna be Tooves!

 

[Pittwater Legend]

This is the first real slump in Tooves fantastic tenure as coach and I believe that external pressures have a lot to do with it, yet people are turning on him.

From reading between the lines I can only gather that the board don't back him and that Foran could possibly be a thorn in his side, but Foran's displeasure might not be solely aimed at Tooves anyway. Aside from that, he's having to deal with a stack of injuries to our first 17 and a lot of new faces who haven't settled into the team yet. These are odds that are so heavily stacked against us and I don't think any coach would do better given the circumstances.

As for comparisons between Hasler and Tooves. I rate Des as arguably the best coach but remember that Des was 0 and 4 after four rounds with a better team in 2009. And if Melbourne weren't caught in 2010 then we would have missed the finals in that season.

If we are fair dinkum then we will give Toovey the credit he deserves.

 

[manlyfan76]

With Penn now owning the club, watch for Hasler to speak out in the media "favourably" for Manly. He will use words of support, instead on feigning interest like he has done in the past 3 years.

It will be a sure sign that Penn has agreed to terms with him, and he will be welcomed back.

Sounds legit, Des will wait for the perfect storm to return. A new fab roster, lean times over with and our strong jnrs pushing for spots while 2V sees over the rebuild.

 

[Frank]

How anyone that supports our club can look beyond the pathetic administration of this club and point the finger at a club legend and great coach is beyond me.

Tooves does not deserve this rubbish. How about some anger management and redirect it where it should go. Our administration at the highest level has f*cked this club over worse than I have seen in 45 years. Tooves took on the role when we were in a bad way. Things are worse now than they were then, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the coach.

Tooves may not see out the year but it won't be his coaching that decides that.

What a shameful thread.

 

[Wombat64]

This is the first real slump in Tooves fantastic tenure as coach and I believe that external pressures have a lot to do with it, yet people are turning on him.

From reading between the lines I can only gather that the board don't back him and that Foran could possibly be a thorn in his side, but Foran's displeasure might not be solely aimed at Tooves anyway. Aside from that, he's having to deal with a stack of injuries to our first 17 and a lot of new faces who haven't settled into the team yet. These are odds that are so heavily stacked against us and I don't think any coach would do better given the circumstances.

As for comparisons between Hasler and Tooves. I rate Des as arguably the best coach but remember that Des was 0 and 4 after four rounds with a better team in 2009. And if Melbourne weren't caught in 2010 then we would have missed the finals in that season.

If we are fair dinkum then we will give Toovey the credit he deserves.

Not sure anyone here is against Tooves ...... we all love the guy. However, footy is results driven and the results for what ever reason are not on the board this year or the end of last year. We are playing like ****. If there is no one in management against him then they will understand and give him time and he will be fine but if they do have knives out they have or will have in the next few weeks all the reasons they need to get rid of him and he is basically f*cked....

 

[Mals]

He inherited a star team. Dez took a team from the northern eagles days and every year improved the team, going from 5th, to 2nd to winning the GF and building a culture.
He then went and coached the dogs, who the year before were wooden spooner's and turned them into minor premiers in one year.

A footy forum is not the place to lie about a team's finishing position.

Canterbury - finished 9th in 2011 with 12 wins.

Keep pumping up Desmond's tyres.

 

[ManlyMatt]

Tooves will have my support until he misses a finals series. I think there is enough quality for the next couple of years at least and enough crap teams for us to make the finals every year. Long term i think there needs to be evidence of building towards success for him to keep his job but for this year he just needs to find a way to win games.

 

[robbiea]

14th or 15th ,FMD.
Ye who have little faith .
We are manly !!

 

[Fibro Eagle]

Toovs is doing the best he can under the circumstances . I get a little sick and tired of the constant quotes that he inherited this squad .Every coach inherits a squad I accept that Hasler built a squad but from the bottom up and was able to pay lower contracts to keep it together then left at the high end .In comes Toovs they make the finals and bow out to eventual GF winners another year passes Manly make the GF but get beaten another year passes Midway through the year everyone is tipping manly to go all the way towards the end Manly suffer some key player injuries and in fighting but still finish equal first then get beat in golden point in the semi . and some say he cant coach . since Hasler has left manly have been unable to bring in high quality players cause they come at a cost which manly cant afford cause of backended contracts and upgrades to key personel . but brings through quality juniors and young guys like Gutherson ,Hiku Tafua, Trbojevic brothers , Lui and JSL , As head coach Toovs overseers these players and tries to build this current squad with the limitations he has had to deal with . He didnt get the full control like Hasler got so has to deal with what he has in front of him. From player dummy spits and players not being totally honest which brings us to 6 current players from the 2011 GF wining team Of which 3 have been injured or unable to play a full game and to add to the 2 halves deciding to move on .Which will leave manly to rebuild with only 4 players from the Hasler squad its about time we gave Toovs the oppurtunity to build his own squad and then and only then can we Judge Toovs so for me ill back Toovs all the way. And its still only round 4 so im hoping Toovs can draw a little more energy from the circle of faith we had in round 2