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Back ended contracts

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by SeaEagleRock8, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I am hoping someone can explain this. BECs are often quoted as the source of our salary cap problems, but all our stars were not signed at the same time so ... ?

    I'm sure there is a simple explanation which would satisfy those (like me) who may be mathematically challenged.

    Meanwhile it seems the BECs allowed us to keep our stars for longer so they were a good thing!
     
  2. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    so....keep on back ending till you don't want a certain player any longer then use the salary cap as an excuse should not be hard to do lol.

    Using 4-5yr long spreadsheets with projection mechanisms built in place so in some years you can use as a salary cap buffer with plenty of backends to sign new players and start paying out when players are released.

    Players are not signed at the same time so you layer back end payments on different years in relation to others while at the same time trying to sneak in buffer zones for the odd cheap recruitment to build up depth.

    Well that is how i see it, obviously once again based off zero facts.
     
  3. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I can only assume it's a balancing act between backending contracts in line with when you expect other existing contracts to finish and thus freeing up $$$.

    I don't see that they are a bad thing per se, no worse than paying everyone there contract amount in equal annual increments. It's all about balancing the books.
     
  4. Frogz

    Frogz Don't mess with the goat, he has photos. Premium Member

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    LIsten to the bullsh1t Pal Kent is talking about on NRL360.....he knows sweet **** all
     
  5. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    You might be on a four year deal starting this year and i am on a five year deal which started last year, both end in the same year and this is where issues can build up the more people you have on back ended contracts.

    Having a few is not really an issue having seven or more you are bound to have real issues trying to juggle the books to balance.

    Not sure also how this affects players taxable income in relation to being in the highest tax bracket more so in some years compared to others, might work in favour or against an accountant would need to look into this further.
     
  6. Aussie Battler

    Aussie Battler Well-Known Member

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    Don't understand it too much myself, but I think what seems to happen with BEC's is that the amount of $$$'s you are paying for a player at a particular time, isn't in line with how they are performing at that time. Gift has always been a favorite, but at the moment there is no way he is an $800k player. Over the last five years it has most probably averaged out, but because he is on a BEC he seems to stand out as the major cause of all our salary cap problems. Can't see anything but a difficult couple of years ahead, but somehow the eagles always rise to the challenge.
     
  7. The Eagle Has Landed

    The Eagle Has Landed Well-Known Member

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  8. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    Good thing about Manly is we don't really need third party payments lol, our third party payment is built in and it's called "location location location".

    Target rising stars with young children and use the "great place to raise a family line" to pay unders lol. Some players fall for it others just hope the location will somehow improve the kids IQ in the future and take a gamble.
     
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  9. Masked Eagle

    Masked Eagle Well-Known Member

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    We don't necessarily need to target the best young talent to replenish the team. We just need to point to our track record of making players from other clubs better. We've turned rejects into internationals! Sell that message to a young kid and their parents and they'll be wanting Manly to be the place where they want their kid to learn his footy. Unless of course they get a dubious player manager who will move them somewhere else for an extra dollar.
     
  10. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Aside from Gift, this year we have established players Choc, King and Buhrer all finishing contracts*. If they were all BECs this would explain why we could only buy cheapies this year.

    Next year DCE, Foran and Matai finish contracts so we'll be in the same boat.

    The last contracts Hasler negotiated would have been several years ago so does this mean Tooves has continued to structure contracts this way? Maybe we are locked into a vicious circle?

    In any case, surely we would have had to shed more stars in recent years if they had not been back-ended, so I'm still not sure how we are worse off...



    * assuming the info in this thread is roughly correct, feel free to update if not:
    http://www.silvertails.net/forum/Thread-Manly-Our-succession-plan?pid=560457#pid560457
     
  11. bones

    bones Bones Knows Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Lol I thought he spoke some sense for a change.
     
  12. seaeagles4life

    seaeagles4life Active Member

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    B.e.cs should really never be an issue unless clubs gamble on the long term increase in the total salary cap. However in reality they do or they overpay in an effort to keep or secure the high profile players.

    E.g. if manly had becs for dce, foran, watmough and the stewarts their increased total pay for next year would have to equal the increase in the total cap. The problem lies in the fact clubs barely know what the salary cap is next year yet alone what it will be in 4-5 years time at the back end of some of these players contracts.
     
  13. Technical Coach

    Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are correct we and many other teams are better off with back ending if you have a quality team and you want to prolong the ride but conversely a team on the slide with too many back ended contracts can't purchase quality to get out of the rut, you are only viewing the positive experience of back ending.
     
  14. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Yeah maybe Penrith were in that position so they ditched Jennings Lewis & co?
     
  15. Masked Eagle

    Masked Eagle Well-Known Member

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    If backending deals helped us keep together the team that won us the 2011 premiership and should have won us the 2013 premiership then wasn't it worth it?
     
  16. globaleagle

    globaleagle Où est mon chapeau Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Maybe too many of our players became that good!

    Maybe the club didn't think dce or foz would skyrocket in value so quickly


    Sooooo we got caught out both ends. High paying b.e.c and needing to vastly upgrade newer contracts!


    I thought the same as tc when he said....just keep back ending then use the salary cap to cut them loose! lol
     
  17. Peter C

    Peter C Well-Known Member

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    We all knew how good Foz was going to be, right from the start, DCE, caught us by surprise in his rapid improvement, and being a Queenslander and a probability of interest from the Broncos, we were left with no choice, but to upgrade his initial contract, which was basically on the minimum wage.
     
  18. globaleagle

    globaleagle Où est mon chapeau Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    True that about Foz.....I must've posted that early in the morning!
     
  19. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    Aren't all salaried workers on 'back-ended' wages? ie. allowing for inflation and bonuses, which means (in most cases) you will be paid more next year than you are this year.
    I don't think it is anything out of the norm.
     
  20. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    I wish i was on back ended some i believe can get 50% more in the last year.

    We are not talking about CPI here
     

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