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Assessment of concern about Junior teams at Manly

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Darren, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. Darren

    Darren Well-Known Member

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    RE: My match report in lower grades section:

    Before I start I have been a regular follower of junior grades for many years. I feel I can write this with some experience.

    Yesterday I sat and watched 2 our two main junior teams play Panthers. What I saw was a shocking reality and concern for the clubs future. Some points of concern are:  

    1. The lack of skill of the players.
    2. The lack of size/athleticism and agility of the players.

    In Matts, there was a winger who must have been 5ft 5 and 55 kilos wringing wet, the panthers just ran thru him like he was a piece of paper, I thought I bet he runs like the wind due to his size but no!! he wasn't even quick

    The 3 big forwards in matts and sg ball were so slow it was embarrassing to watch, they lumbered up and pow, got smashed, couldn't even make yards

    We seem to be full of (excuse the term white skinny slow type players) who don't seem to have loads of natural ability.

    The Panther kids were dynamic, yes, most of them were huge but alot of them, ran, linked up, stepped etc and demonstrated loads of ability, not just run and barge.

    Our club cannot keep paying the 400 grand to every player that comes on the market. Penrith could draw on at least 15 of these kids to play future NRL. In the two teams, I believe only 2 matts boys Hopoate and Haami plus Jowett in SG Ball will go further.

    Crusher needs to get proactive in signing up the western Sydney kids now!!! I cannot see this group that we have making NRL (except Hoppa's boy, definite!!)

    3 Years ago we made regular semis in junior grades, now, we will be lucky not to get the spoon in ball and mid table in matts!!

    The results in the end don't matter, it's the long term future of supplying the 1st grade squad in 2011 onwards which is only 3 years away.

    If you ain't worried, Manly haven't got 1 proper 5/8 in the current future!!  Nick Bradley who is our current 5/8 in reserves is a winger!!!. Toyota cup 5/8 Kieran Foran is only just 17 and probably 3 years away from 1st grade!!!
     
  2. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    1st grade aint much better at this point.
     
  3. Darren

    Darren Well-Known Member

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    Ryan, if you sat there yesterday like I did, it's a big worry, the future of the NRL was on the other side of the paddock!!! It's obvious the north shore ain't going to supply kids anymore, maybe big investments in NZ areas like Wellington is the go, Warriors cannot sign all of them!!!Sunshine Coast is a big plus and well done to the club!!!
     
  4. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    We don't really get many young locals coming through anymore, do we !
     
  5. Garts

    Garts Well-Known Member

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    We never really did.
     
  6. deadlyeagle

    deadlyeagle Member

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    In actuall fact i do think we have a link with a New Zealand club. We have the option to buy some of the youngsters that come through. Dont know the club name but I am sure that we have a link down there.
     
  7. Bradza

    Bradza Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Hi Darren,

    I have a heap of respect for your write ups and feedback on the juniors. My wife & I follow the results with interest although we only catch the very odd game live. The main reason we do that (like you) is because of the importance of having some strong juniors (local or imported) making it through to 1st grade.

    I would point out though that having dominating juinor teams does not guarantee successful graduation to 1st grade. Parra & penrith have been dominating Ball & Matthews for years. Penrith have mixed two wooden spoons with a p/ship and Parra haven't won a comp in 22 yrs. You just have to get a handful of the best juniors making it through and combine that with selective purchases to get a good base for success.

    Still, it seems like we hardly have a handful of promising 18 yr olds at the moment.
     
  8. Corso_Pete

    Corso_Pete Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Why would a kid from western Sydney make a very long trip to the Beaches for training etc for 9 months of the year, they would not have drivers licenses' so the onus of getting them to Brookvale would fall onto the parents. Without any knowledge I would suspect that most of these kids would have both parents working so how do they get to Narrabeen in a reasonable time frame?

    Of course you could offer these kids contracts that make it worthwhile but if they turn out to be any good they simply end up on the open market and will go to the highest bidder (refer topic on Folaul)  and the reality is that only 1 in 10 kids who play junior reps ever make it to the top tier of the NRL. Of course you then have the cost of actually paying money to 15 year olds, where does that cash come from.
     
  9. Darren

    Darren Well-Known Member

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    gday Brad, your point about the long time strength of parras and panthers etc is so true, top juniors doesn't mean success yet looking at current parra they have had some top kids graduate like inu, mateo, hayne, smith, taulitei, but as Corso points out, once they come good then  they want big dollars, Parras big problem and their fans biggest complaint is players they have let go like andrew ryan etc

    Only concern for us is having 5-6 kids to slot in with stars like kite, orford, lyons etc, salary caps only allow 8 stars and rest is kids or unknowns like robbo, mattai, stewarts, banis, or 2nd chancers like rose, jack a 

    I have gone to Manly junior matches for at least 10 years and the sg ball team is the most disapointing I have ever seen, they are the under 18's so there won't be anyone to promote except possibly Jowett

    The current debate of bringing a kid in for a chance 5/8 re Jamie Lyon shows our lack of junior strength with the debacle of nick bradley and jeff robson being our next best halves, the toyota team does have 5 quite good chances of a future but remember we paid a unknown like jarred hargreaves six figure dollar contracts so he isn't exactly a smoky. 
     
  10. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I watched the Rugby on Saturday and it was interesting to the see the Manly Rugby team play Sydney Uni. I knew a few of the Uni guys, quite a few being kids I coached or coached against. They won but there was plenty of young talent for Manly. Phil Blake (remember him) was the coach and the ball handling and running skills of many of the Marlins was good. It was a tough game.

    My point is that Rugby is very strong on the beaches and there is nary a team west of Eastwood. A lot of the good young kids play Rugby or both for a while, and the demographic means that many people on the Peninsula have less kids.

    League rules in the West (with Soccer though they are not thrilled by Sydney FC and it is a long way to go to a game - Eastern Suburbs.)

    Darren raises a good point but the other issue is that some clubs have a lot more cash for Junior Development and we do not. Do you think Manly wanted Groom to go? Probably not but not prepared to pay what the Dogs had to pay.

    Good thread and some good discussion.
     
  11. willstyles

    willstyles Active Member

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    I agreed with the rest of what you said, but there's no point in having me just repeat it, but just on Groom - Manly were happy to let him go.

    They weren't seeing enough improvement in him, didn't see potential in him to be a future halfback at the club and told him that straight up. He disagreed and found a club that did see him as a halfback (not a hooker, which was what Manly had decided was the only position he could made the grade in).

    I really don't think money came into it much at all. But it is true that Manly don't have the development funds that other clubs have. Aside from the top-notch facilities at Narrabeen (which really are excellent), Manly really don't have anything that can compete with the other top clubs in the NRL.
     
  12. JEF

    JEF Active Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I was speaking to someone high up in the St George club recently and he was talking about how excited the club was signing Maurice and John Kennedy, who are both in their Toyota Cup side at half and 5/8.

    Aren't they Manly juniors?

    Don't tell me we've let two more inside backs go.

    At the same time ity was reported that Crusher was talking to a top agent about the club acquiring half backs.

    Doesn't make sense.
     
  13. MNF

    MNF Member

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    About bloody time someone with some balls who says it like it is our lower grades are a disgrace.Crusher has been terrible who has he got from say 16,17,or even 18 thats turned out to be a top grader at our club,our recruitment is a shambles and crusher and mayer have to take the blame.I ask if the best we have in 2008 is to pin our hopes to an old backrower ( a great backrower) in the 5/8 position then we have not much future.Looking into my crystal ball mayer will sign some trash from another club and tell us its going good.I hope we get smashed tonight then maybe the people might just realise how much trouble were in,one bad season and we are BROKE
     
  14. Garts

    Garts Well-Known Member

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    You hope we get smashed?  Wont that help contribute to the season becoming worse and heading down the road to financial ruin?  Yeah great thing to wish for!!!!!
     
  15. Guest

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    Daniel Harrison who played for NSW when he was with us is apparantly going really well for the bulldogs in their toyota cup team now as a second rower. 

    A marlin junior Coedi towney plays full back in the Toyota cup for the tigers and is impressing with 4 tries in the last 2 games including 3 last week. 

    The tigers winger Tuiaka is a Curl Curl junior who we let get away.  Another junior Zeb Tahwa is also going well with Melbourne Toyota cup team.

    We have good juniors but either we don't develop them properly or can't match the offers from other clubs.
     
  16. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    There should be no surprise.  Any decent sized kid on the Northern Beaches would be aiming for the bigger money on offer in rugby, and being involved in a slightly more intelligent team environment.

    In the next decade the junior ranks will be completely over run by Islanders.  how many of them live east of the Pacific Highway?
     
  17. Corso_Pete

    Corso_Pete Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    To blame Crusher seems a bit simplistic. He certainly has the runs on board in terms of recruitment from previous years. Can a talent scout lose form?

    It seems that so much of recruitment these days is involved with money and how much a kid can get. In the current climate it is apparent that we are unable to offer the amount of money that is needed to lure talented players to Manly.  There are a myriad of stories concerning player agents at schoolboy carnivals offering kids what seems to be the world, for a talent that may or may not eventuate into an NRL standard.
     
  18. MNF

    MNF Member

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                Yeah he had a great record at Parra when money wasn't a concern and you and I could recruit kids.Since he's been at Manly name 1 young superstar that he has recruited to the club,if you ask me if he wasn't at the club we wouldn't have burnt so much cash on lyon.You say runs on the board I say living off reputation gained elswere.
     
  19. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    That's a bit harsh - it normally takes a number of years for this sort of thing to happen. Also you said it yourself: Money!!!
     
  20. SF08

    SF08 Member

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    In answer to your question MNF, name 1 young superstar he has recruited:

    He recruited Kieran Foran from Norths...  ;)
     

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