ARL cant be that stupid

[ManlyBacker]

I never saw the SL vision as anything but a grand grab for tv rights. I admit that a positive for the players was that their worth was suddenly increased by a factor of something like 4, but that was just a by-product of a deliberate attempt at the vision level to hijack the game for profits through cable. It was abetted by club administrators lining their pockets and fulfilling vendettas. Anything more 'noble' than that is just a figment of your imaginations.

 

[Ryan]

For some reason, I "used to" like eating the RED jelly beans first, then the BLACK ones after that.

Ribot - you are a F**kwit.

 

[The Wheel]

Well it my opinion Super League as MB stated was a grab for Pay TV right but this was encouraged by Ribot and the Broncos who felt that there monopoly in Brisbane was under threat and that the ARL were actually undermining there efforts to exert a profit for the private owners like Morgan.

 

[DSM5]

I agree with you Arko-Admirer, the reason why Manly didn't go for the SL cash was the Arko was ARL President at the time.  Clubs have come and gone under all administrators so we can't get too high minded about rationalization (I'd give the game away if Manly was outed though).  We could argue the merits of who did what, to whom and why forever, but what always perplexed me was why the administrators of league left, and have continued to leave, o.s expansion to rugby, a clearly inferior game.   

 

[Arko-admirer]

I am also of the opinion that SuperLeague was not so much an idea or plan for the game's betterment but a flimsy and transparent justification for a purely self-interested Bronco cash and power grab underwritten by News and their desire to see the ARL break its (binding and in good faith) contract with PBL at the time.


Any pretence it was for the game's good is undermined by the fatal flaw of selling the code to a media organisation, which presents obvious conflicts of interests in terms of rights renumeration (under 21s given away FFS), game scheduling and most exasperatingly the money News continues to extract under what might appear on their balance sheet as "wrecking the game fees".

Aside from this SuperLeague is still and always was a  terrible idea because it was an abstract restructuring and marketing plan divorced from the real passions of fans.  It is a good idea in the way communism is, in other words it could work except for the people.

For a Manly supporter this can be summed up in two demoralising, blood-chilling and enraging words - Northern Eagles

Northern Eagles was in many ways the ideal Super League franchise. The rationalisation of two old neighbouring clubs into a superclub with a new grafted on identity, a huge potenetial demographic and great facilities including a pretty well spanking new stadium.


Frankly the wounds are still raw and I don't want to talk about that anymore.

 

[eagle_predator]

(I'd give the game away if Manly was outed though)  

DSM5 I agree totally mate should the Sea Eagles be no more i could never follow another team no way i just couldn't do it.

 

[Ryan]

(I'd give the game away if Manly was outed though)  

DSM5 I agree totally mate should the Sea Eagles be no more i could never follow another team no way i just couldn't do it.

Well, I went from The Bears to The Eagles, and am glad for it.
That being said, if Manly folded (which it wouldn't - see why below), I would never support another club as well. That then says a lot to me about my affiliation with The Bears. Additionally, it doesn't IMO show how loyal or passionate a fan is.

RE ABOVE: Davis Gallop said on the footy show last year in an interview with Gould how hurt the NRL was with the loss of a prescence in Northern Sydney. He said there was a tangible income and asset negative movement due to their decision to amalgamate the two entities (and defunct one subsequently).

With that in mind, The Eagles are the closest thing to a prescence in that area. If The Eagles ever re-llocated, I reckon the game would really struggle, whilst other codes would be licking their lips.

It would be such a huge demographic to lose. Also consider The beaches have been upgraded to medium density, with 60,000 new homes to be built by 2010 (obviously growing as fast as some QLD growth areas), it would be like suicide for The NRL.

Imagine of the majority of people tuned out of the game from Palm Beach to Milsons Point, and as far back as say Cammeray and Northbridge. LoL.

For some reason, there are those that think people that supported The Bears who now support The Eagles are a less of a fan (Wheel for example has that attitude). I do love the game. But that would be it as far as I was concerned.

If this guy (Ribot) has any say in our game once again - we are in trouble. I hope Gallop has the stats and figures to show the QLD Rugby League how much income, interest and asset loss  has occured due to this idiots ideas.

 

[Dan]

Wheel doesnt have that attitude he just hates the ****ing Bears!

 

[DSM5]

My brother-in-law was a Bears supporter, Artarman bred, and he went over to grugby when the Bears 'amalgamated'.  My guess is that it is a rare breed of Bears supporters that went over to Manly. (and more strength to you Ryan)  The way I saw SL was that four teams would be in Sydney, North, South, East and West.  We, of course would be of the North.  Money, talent and the rest would then be spread around the continent, South Africa, NZ, japan and then the world.  Sound familiar?  It was a good concept as I've said.  Pity about it's implementation.  By the way Arko mate, the money coming out of PBL was chickenfeed for the product.  Packer was not the white knight everyone thought.  He knew the value of his own coin.   

 

[Arko-admirer]

I don't wish to overly defend Packer. It is my understanding that he doublecrossed the ARL effectively handing the final victory to News. If Arthurson had a fault it was his increasingly quaint idea that contracts were entered into to be honoured and people taken at their word.

I also believe Packer was the only bidder at the time of the contract in question, so no doubt he low-balled. However the game remained in the hands of league lovers whose interest was promoting the sport not a pay TV bottom line.

DSM5 under the scheme you have just outlined the prototype for the North team you would be (were) the Northern Eagles!  The team you and I would never support!

Even purely as a concept I think that sucks.

The trouble was not with the implementation of SuperLeague, it was with an unworkable blueprint.

The way to advance the game was to have it the hands of men who understood it, were working to encourage it growth and sometimes act to prune it as organically as possible and not according to some greater miscontrued scheme however good a power point presentation concept.

Where those men are now I am not sure but the last thing I would want is for wreckers like Ribot to come back in.

 

[Arko-admirer]

If I can just add a little to what I previously said I think the fatal flaw in the thinking of SuperLeague types was that fans are basically consumers who would swap to a superiour product if it was marketed well enough.

This was a fundamental misunderstanding by corporate men looking through a prism of spreadsheets. Club loyalties, rivalries and identity are not just manufactured and transferred as we see how all of us feel about the Northern Eagles (who on the face of it are the more rational entity_.

SuperLeague would have looked like the fast fading in Australia Super 14 rugby. I know no Super 14 rugby fan who could confidently name the last three winners of that comp like even an average NRL fan could.

SuperLeague was a diabolical idea put up by diabolical men.

 

[DSM5]

Not to labour the point Arko.  They way I saw the Northern team was for the bears to disappear as an entity and Manly to be that Northern team.  The concept of amalgamation of Bears and Manly under another name and playing up in Bogan territory was never going to work obviously.  It's interesting that Gallop, who was a lawyer for News throughout that period, is in charge of the current game.  In my view he's a complete joke.  If he thinks the Bears are worth saving the guys completely stupid. 

 

[Rex]

...  The SL concept was a good one, poorly implemented.  ...   

wtf??

Exactly how was SuperLeague EVER a "good concept"?  Money was inevitably going to flood into Rugby League when Paul Keating opened up Australian TV to Pay TV channels.  And all SuperLeague was designed to do was to take over control of the League organisation so Murdoch didn't need to spend as much money.

All Ribot's "vision" crap was fluff to fool the highly gullible into believing Murdoch's aim was in helping to grow the game.  Now Rugby and AFL do very well in negotiations for TV rights.  And Rugby League is consistently screwed in these negotiations. Of course, how can this be any other way when Murdoch owns the NRL?

The inevitable outcome of the SuperLeague hostile takeover was the game went from its healthiest position EVER to squandering the jackpot winnings of Pay TV startup in Australia plus all of its reserves in a few short years.  The game was effectively bankrupted and took ten years to get back on its feet again. Will the game ever recover from the Murdoch/Ribot strategy?  Only time will tell.

 

[Canteen Worker]

It is surprising to say the least to see a SuperLeague defender on a Manly forum.

To live up to my forum name, you do remember who was running the ARL at the time?

Ken Arthurson, perhaps Australia's finest sports administrator.

The game had structural problems, which came to the fore at the time because of its tremendous success. The code was expanding, had the cash to invest into grass roots and was the envy of rivals for its innovative marketing.

Why was that? We had a genuine league lover in charge with nous, integrity and guts. He and Quayle were attempting to rationalise Sydney clubs in the least disruptive fashion, mindful of the fact that the real league lover loves the club as well.

SuperLeague was a hostile (in every sense of the word) takeover bid by the purely self-interested greedy monopolistic Broncos and pay TV pushers News who only will ever see league as product to be exploited for maximum gain from minimum input. It was headed by Ribot who has always struck me as someone whose grandiose opinion of himself far exceeds his capabilities. I note he has gone from job to job since.

I note also karma is visiting the Sydney clubs stupid enough to jump to SuperLeague. Canterbury, Cronulla and Penrith are all going from once farce to another. Even the 90s marquee club Canberra has never regained the lustre it had under the ARL.

SuperLeague was an unloveable concept pushed by unloveable and frankly inferior individuals.


Manly is much more than money or a franchising concept. Love of Manly, whether by the Delmege sons that convinced the dad to invest (actually donate) or by good and faithful servants who rebuilt the club from desolation is worth far more than the quick dollars painfully since extracted by News or a frankly ridiculous \"vision\". We were right to stay with the ARL and have been vindicated.

Great comment.

Whether Superleague was a good idea or not the whole thing was about PAY TV. Other reasons may be been used but establishing PAY was the total reason for the whole fiasco - it is just that the clubs, players and third parties used their gripes of the time to justify their involvement.

Can you imagine in the AFL a coup involving Adelaide, Port Adelaide, West Coast, Freemantle, Brisbane and Sydney joining with Geelong and North Melbourne to tell Carlton and Collingwood they need to amalgamate, Richmond is out and that Hawthorn, Western Bulldogs and St Kilda are in danger with one of them needing to go with the compromise being a team in Tasmania???

 

[DSM5]

Canteen, in five years what you say about the AFL will be true (differing teams though).  The NRL will have to get proactive about expansion if it wants to survive.

 

[eagle_predator]

[quote author=eagle_predator link=topic=178944.msg203667#msg203667 date=1227844161]
(I'd give the game away if Manly was outed though)  

DSM5 I agree totally mate should the Sea Eagles be no more i could never follow another team no way i just couldn't do it.

Well, I went from The Bears to The Eagles, and am glad for it.
That being said, if Manly folded (which it wouldn't - see why below), I would never support another club as well. That then says a lot to me about my affiliation with The Bears. Additionally, it doesn't IMO show how loyal or passionate a fan is.

RE ABOVE: Davis Gallop said on the footy show last year in an interview with Gould how hurt the NRL was with the loss of a prescence in Northern Sydney. He said there was a tangible income and asset negative movement due to their decision to amalgamate the two entities (and defunct one subsequently).

With that in mind, The Eagles are the closest thing to a prescence in that area. If The Eagles ever re-llocated, I reckon the game would really struggle, whilst other codes would be licking their lips.

It would be such a huge demographic to lose. Also consider The beaches have been upgraded to medium density, with 60,000 new homes to be built by 2010 (obviously growing as fast as some QLD growth areas), it would be like suicide for The NRL.

Imagine of the majority of people tuned out of the game from Palm Beach to Milsons Point, and as far back as say Cammeray and Northbridge. LoL.

For some reason, there are those that think people that supported The Bears who now support The Eagles are a less of a fan (Wheel for example has that attitude). I do love the game. But that would be it as far as I was concerned.

If this guy (Ribot) has any say in our game once again - we are in trouble. I hope Gallop has the stats and figures to show the QLD Rugby League how much income, interest and asset loss  has occured due to this idiots ideas.
[/quote]

Ryan it wouldn't be an easy thing to do for any passionate league supporter to change clubs after their been supporting their own club for any period of time and after their club had folded for what ever reason like the Bears did after the merger with Manly ended.

But if changing clubs wasn't a hard enough thing to do in it's self. You made the choice to support your old clubs rival that takes guts i reckon.

(Say Manly merged with their direct hated rivals the Eels ), and the merger broke down afterwards and Manly was out of the comp as a result of it. Theres no way in hell i would ever support the slime so i take my hat off to you Ryan.

 

[Canteen Worker]

I did not support the Beagles and went to one game in the whole time - when given a free ticket. My experience was that were not Manly and I never went or watched again until Manly were Manly. Call me bloody minded but you can't turn 20+ years of support into something else at the whim of someone else. Well done to Ryan and Co who came over to Manly but I know of many who have left League as a result of the demise of Wests, Balmain, and Norths.

 

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

I was the same CW i didn't go to many games either but let me say this it was all arko's fault if we'd gone to super league we would have got the money & not needed to merge with norths.Till today i still think we should have jumped to super league & lets face i'm sure in the back of everyones minds we had a feeling that one day in the near future we'd again have one comp.

 

[Duff]

That's a slimey post Pontian, as bad as some of DSM5's mange.

I went to no Beagles games, instead going to reggies games to get my fix of Manly when the Beagles were up the coast.

Even after the premiership this year I stand by what I said at the time. I'd rather we died out with dignity than compromise our identity by a merger or selling out to those for whom the best interests of the game & all involved came second to the lining of their own pockets.

Now one of these scumbags is back to either seek forgiveness or have another crack at taking over? He needs to be burned at the stake for the protection of the game and it's retribution. News cannot have their half of the board & then start to infiltrate ours.

 

[DSM5]

Duff, the 'die out with dignity ' play is rubbish.  Stay with the ARL or go with SL?  Same thing really,  still playing rugby league other than, staying with the ARL saw us go broke, merge with the stoopid Bears and disappear from the competition completely.  If we had of gone to SL we would have taken the cash and played on as the dominant team.  The lining of pockets will always be involved with sports, especially at the professional level, aka Colin Love, Gould, Hadley etc.  Duff, my guess is you would have rather supported no-team, than have supported a Manly team playing in a Super League comp.  Strange thing that.  Anyway, Ribot was also behind the Melbourne team which I think is good for the game, just like I think North Qld is as well.  I think Ribot's probably got something to offer the game that might drag the ARL into this century and I don't think youse punters should be scared.  Change can be positive especially if Manly is sitting in the driving seat steering the vision..