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1 Million a season for one player wont break the bank explained

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Simonmyers11, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Simonmyers11

    Simonmyers11 Well-Known Member

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    There has been a lot of discussion lately from fans about how they have felt about Manly's decision, or more importantly, the owners (Penn's) and CEO (Kelly's) decision, not to match Gold Coast Titans 1 million a year offer for DCE. There have been arguments for and arguments against. Some feel like I do, he was worth the extra money, so we could keep at least one Marquee player, not lose both international halves at once, build the team around DCE for the next 4 years and blood another young half and use the extra money saved on Foran to sign a representative forward, others feel paying 1 million a season for one player is crazy!

    Anyway, not going to go into that, there has been enough threads about DCE and the halves signings, this is just a way of putting the 1 million dollar a season for one player into perspective, in regards to the salary cap - at the time of the signing.

    By the way, Daley is currently been paid 500k a year and he just makes it into the top 20 highest paid players on the list for 2015 at equal number 20 (but that doesn't take into account all NRL contracts being accounted for on zero tackle- he may well be in fact further down the list!) Check out the list, and the players also on 500k such as Uate from the knights!


    http://www.zerotackle.com/nrl/rugby-league/players/highest-paid-players/

    There has been a lot of comments made that Thurston and Cam Smith are getting paid less than DCE. Both of these players have already signed for 1 million. Cam smith last year, and Thurston back in 2013 for seasons 2014-2017. Inglis signed back in 2012 for 800k (seasons 2013-17).

    Salary Cap
    2013 - 5.85 million
    2014 - 6.3 million
    2015 - 6.55 million
    2016 - 6.8 million
    2017- 7 million
    2019 - 7.6 million or more?


    http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...y-cap-hits-seventh-heaven-20130513-2ji1f.html

    You have to put the salary cap into perspective when these players signed. Each year, the cap continues to grow, and player payments continue to rise. 800k back in 2012 when Inglis signed was a huge deal, now 3 years later, when Chez signed for 1 million it was deemed as too much, however they both at the time of signing only take 15% of the total salary cap. You also have to take into account Marquee payments (up to 600k extra not included in the salary cap from major sponsors) I wonder why DCE wasn't offered any addition player payments from our sponsors or maybe he was?

    These days forwards are being paid 750-800k, Jason Taumalolo was offered 1 million! Trent and Maloney will also attract offers as high as 700-800k - the same as what we offered DCE! It's all good saying we now have a war chest, but we still have to outbid opposition teams fighting for the same players we are going after. It's like when you have good stock or property and sell for a good price, but then you need to buy again and are confronted with a market where you are paying a premium price and in a competitive market. May as well held onto the quality you had.

    My argument is not whether DCE is worth the 1 million, it's how high a regard did we feel he was worth compared to the other halves available. I feel the difference between 800k and 1 million in today's salary cap is not much, especially since it will continue to climb. You lock DCE for 1 million a year now for 4 years, and in 4 years time, the cap has gone up a million anyway! Have to ask yourself, who would you want as half for the next 4 years. Trent, Maloney, Carney for 700-800k or DCE for 1 million. We have a young side coming through and a few players will retire in the next 2 years which will free up even more space(Lyon, Matai, Snake, Ballin) I just don't get the argument 1 million is too much for 1 player. People will say look at Cowboys, but they have one of the best roosters in the NRL, they chocked last year in the semis. IMO they should of won it last year. They didn't lose because Thurston was paid too much, they chocked in the first half and have also been robbed by the ref a few times. South's bought GI and Sam Burgees to win the premiership, Roosters SBW, Melbourne are paying Smith 1 million, and also Cronk 750k and ontop of what they pay Slater plus a new deal for Bromich. Bet they still will be completive this year!

    Anyway, just food for thought. It might turn out to a great decision and we find a great replacement (I'm hoping), or we end of paying over's for a replacement not even half the talent, even worse, we don't sign any marquee players. Only time will tell? Will be interesting to see what we end of offering potential replacements. The Penn's and Kelly say they have a backup plan and the future looks bright - let's hope they deliver!
     
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  2. JenEagle

    JenEagle Well-Known Member

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    Nice summary. We should pull out all stops to keep DCE. He was our future as foran was never committed IMO as has been discussed many times
     
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  3. manlyfan76

    manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Apparently only half of cherrys 1 million is under the cap and the other half is nrl guaranteed 3rd party.
     
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  4. Killer03

    Killer03 Well-Known Member

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    I think another key point though which needs to be addressed is the effect on other players/salaries. So in my opinion you can't just look at DCE/Forans wage in isolation. If you offer either of them $1m we aren't a team like Melbourne with the big 3. We are more a team with a real quality 6 (or thereabouts). So say DCE, Foran, Killer, Skivvi, Snake and say Ballin (but also previously Watmough, Gift, Kitey). If say Killer is on $500k (I have no knowledge of his wage), he may start seeing this and thinking 'hang on, I win more games than him, I should be pushed from $500k to $800k'. And the whole thing could cause all of those types to want upgrades (or get disgruntled).

    In the corporate world (where people don't know each others wages....but sometimes find out), salaries and wages can cause a lot of issues. In the NRL when it is so public and slammed across the media, it really heightens the issue.
     
  5. Simonmyers11

    Simonmyers11 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that stinks!
     
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  6. joeboy

    joeboy Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that's fair. That had better not be true.

    All I know is I'd rather pay cherry what he is worth,Than lowball him and piss him off so much he doesn't want to stay.

    We are no better off with a 600 000 half he is nearly as good as cherry. That extra 400 000 is recouped having a player of his calibre and profile so quickly. The future australian halfback is a marketing, sponsorship and club profiles dream.

    We stuffed up, but I don't expect the people responsible, to admit it.

    They will have to a lot to impress me in the next 6 months, but I'm not backing them in.
     
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  7. Simonmyers11

    Simonmyers11 Well-Known Member

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    Get what your saying totally, and it happens all the time in the workforce. You have really good staff on average pay, then the company will pay double for another staff member to keep them or poach from another company. Think this is just a case of Cherry and Foran going onto an open market where players payments are now increasing rapidly. I still felt it was neccassary to keep the australian half back on your team! I keep thinking, who are we going to replace him with... and then I keep coming back too no one, I want DCE
     
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  8. Simonmyers11

    Simonmyers11 Well-Known Member

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    The future australian halfback is a marketing, sponsorship and club profiles dream.

    Exactly. I dont want this thread to turn into another DCE/Halves thread - but Im trying to make the point it's also an investment like stated above! You can attract other keen young halves to play along side a rep half back, plus sponsorships, adverting etc
    DCE is only young too remeber, he is not a thurston yet, but he will get better and better.
     
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  9. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    You have to factor in that we lose him 3 times a year for origin, per game he is expensive. However the cupboard is bare and there is no one of his quality out there in the halves available as such I think we should really offer to match GC's money before round 13 and see if he will stay, I just can't see anyone out there that could come close in quality and we have a massive hole to fill with both leaving
     
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  10. dowdz

    dowdz Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    If he is already trying to recruit, does any one think he will change his mind? Money is pretty damn good. Sorry, i forgot it is what's best for the family. Lol. Like Dan said, considering the choices, it would be nice if he did change his mind. Perhaps Kelly has stuffed that up for Manly though.
     
  11. Loobs

    Loobs I am not really Scott Penn Premium Member

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    I highly doubt Taumalolo was offered 1M a season from the Warriors. This I believe was "mere puff"
     
  12. castle eagle

    castle eagle Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    i think its time to get over this crap.
    he will not be an eagle next year so people should stop all this 'we should offer him more money to stay' crap.
    move on people, nothing to see here
     
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  13. slickster

    slickster New Member

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    There has been a lot of comments made that Thurston and Cam Smith are getting paid less than DCE. Both of these players have already signed for 1 million. Cam smith last year, and Thurston back in 2013 for seasons 2014-2017. Inglis signed back in 2012 for 800k (seasons 2013-17).

    Salary Cap
    2013 - 5.85 million
    2014 - 6.3 million
    2015 - 6.55 million
    2016 - 6.8 million
    2017- 7 million
    2019 - 7.6 million or more?

    The problem with the article and your statement is that manly do not have 6.3million to spend. Only the rich clubs with financial support can do that with 3rd party payments

    The reason DCE was changed between the owners was that Sidney offer DCE over 1 Million in guaranteed payments which included the 3rd party payments. While Penn Family offered the same money but the 3rd payment was not guaranteed which is fair.

    Only clubs like Bulldogs, Souths, Brisbane, Melbourne, cowboys have financial support from 3rd party companies. Manly do not have that sort of support which would bring your salary cap down to 4.5 million. not 6.3 million.
    I believe it is an unfair system and awards the rich clubs while clubs with loyal players like what manly had. no discount.

    Look at Johnathon Thurston never won a premiership? why, because all there salary is going toward one player. You need to spread the income between youth and experience quality players. If you go back to 2009 and 2011 have a look at side and we had a mixture of youth and experience. The same reason souths won the premiership last year. You do not put all your eggs in one basket.

    I support what the management are trying to do after backended contracts that were done by dessie.
     
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  14. Wombat64

    Wombat64 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Nice summary
     
  15. Pepi

    Pepi Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you are trying to say and I agree for most part, but Manly are not running on a $4.5 mill cap. I think you will find all teams are spending close to if not all of the cap.
     
  16. Simonmyers11

    Simonmyers11 Well-Known Member

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    So what your saying is last year Manly had guaranteed payments when Quantum was still here and now Manly can't offer these payments since the Penn's took over? Is Manly a poorer club now, with only 4.5 million to spend? How do you know this, or you just pulling those figures out your ar#e? I'm pretty sure Manly would spend the full cap allowance of 6.8 million for 2016? If that's true, and we can only offer payments up to 4.5m, then the NRL should guarantee all NRL clubs are able to spend the full cap allowance with extra assistance. It's up to the Kelly's and CEO to bring in sponsorships and to provide the extra 600k for Marquee players. If we are only spending 4.5 million, and other teams are spending 6.8 million, no wonder we keep losing our star players!


    By the way, spending money on Thurston is not the reason the cowboys haven't won the GF. That had the team last year to win it. They have been robbed a few times. That is a stupid excuse
     
  17. Moops

    Moops Well-Known Member

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    There is no way the game can sustain a salary cap of close to 8 million. Some clubs are going to go under. It's inevitable and I think that is what the NRL is hoping for. Less clubs in Sydney and further expansion. The Dragons and a few others can barely keep up as it is now. If it wasn't for the NRL, the Titans would be gone, and so would the Knights, but the game needs the Knights. I am not so sure whether it needs the Titans. Rugby league is being eroded in Sydney, so the days of billion dollar media deals will become less likely and clubs that depend on the NRL will fall by the wayside. I teach in the Canterbury Bankstown area and it is only a very small minority of students that are into rugby league. Soccer and AFL are the popular sports.
     
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  18. Moondog

    Moondog Grey-beard loon Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Anyway the NRL backed Titans still have plenty of money to spend according to this and DCE is busy recruiting...
    [​IMG]
    Daly Cherry-Evans has endorsed a recruitment hit list. Picture: Mark Evans

    NRL clubs be warned, the Gold Coast Titans are hunting the scalps of your best young players.

    The NRL-backed Titans are going on a recruitment spree and The Courier-Mail can reveal the club’s Daly Cherry-Evans endorsed hit list.

    Coach Neil Henry and recruitment chief Jamie Mathiou are targeting players in their early 20’s who are considered future representative stars.

    Mathiou is the club’s first full time recruitment manager and he has already helped secure arguably the club’s greatest signing in Cherry-Evans.

    The Gold Coast have at least $2 million to spend in their cap even after their $1m a year splurge on Cherry-Evans.

    Their next priorities are Rabbitohs revelation Alex Johnston, St George Illawarra sensation Euan Aitken, young Broncos props Joe Ofahengaue, Francis Molo and George Fai and future Origin centre Dane Gagai.



    [​IMG]
    Euan Aitken produced a stunning debut on Saturday.

    There will be an overhaul of the Titans roster for 2016 with Cherry-Evans to be joined by at least two more representative-quality players.

    The Titans are fighting three other clubs for the signature of Johnston, one of the most exciting talents in the NRL.

    The 20-year-old is already among the NRL’s best wingers and was selected in Australia’s Four Nations squad last year.

    Souths are nervous that Johnston’s desire to be a permanent fullback will see him leave Redfern as there is no chance of him usurping Greg Inglis.

    The Titans have met with Johnston’s manager Clinton Schifcofske regarding his client’s next contract but an offer is yet to be made.

    Any offer will depend on whether they secure the services of Gagai and Aitken as centre is the Titans’ major roster hole.

    Aitken, 19, was brilliant in his first game for the Dragons in their win over Canberra with coach Paul McGregor rating his 192 metre effort one of the best debuts he’s witnessed.

    Benji Marshall rates him the best teenager in the NRL.



    [​IMG]
    Joe Ofahengaue has been churning out big stats for Brisbane. Picture: Peter Wallis

    Gagai is seriously considering spurning Wayne Bennett and joining the Titans and has been impressed with their negotiations so far.

    While coach Henry would not be drawn on individual talents he revealed the club now had a youth policy and confirmed there would be further roster change.

    “We’re trying to recruit, with Jamie Mathiou, young players for the future around a nucleus of older guys we’ve got here that have got the experience,” Henry said.

    “There’s no doubt there is a changeover in players and that will continue like it does at a lot of clubs.

    “We’ve had a little bit of movement this year and there will be a little bit more next year with the nucleus of the players staying.

    “That recruitment is an ongoing process and we just get on with our footy in the meantime.”

    While Cherry-Evans is being asked for advice on potential recruits he is not making offers to his NRL brethren.

    The Knights are furious that Cherry-Evans contacted Gagai about coming to the Gold Coast but Henry said the issue had been blown out of proportion.

    “I think Dane Gagai was just something Cherry-Evans makes a call about because they know each other,” Henry said.

    “He is not recruiting on behalf of us. Players talk all the time.

    “There was a bit of publicity around it and it was motivated that way and I don’t think there is anything in it.”

    WISH LIST

    Alex Johnston

    Age: 20

    Club: Rabbitohs

    Position: Wing/fullback

    Dane Gagai

    Age: 24

    Club: Knights

    Position: Centre

    Euan Aitken

    Age: 19

    Club: Dragons

    Position: Centre

    Jo Ofahengaue

    Age: 19

    Club: Broncos

    Position: Prop

    Francis Molo

    Age: 20

    Club: Broncos

    Position: Prop

    George Fai

    Age: 18

    Club: Broncos

    Position: Prop

    It's from the Courier Mail so there's every possibility it's bulls**t.
     
  19. hozza

    hozza Well-Known Member

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    Why is it a stupid excuse?? If the cows had an extra 300k to throw at a quality 5/8 , that in turn would take pressure off thurston and help create more chances.
    Everyone is entitled to there opinion bud
     
  20. hozza

    hozza Well-Known Member

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    Iv been one of the ones saying that DCE isn't worth a million from our cap. In saying that I'd have no probs with us giving him 500k and then 500k in 3rd party. Simply fact is it's not happening. Time to move on. We all support the greatest team in the world, hopefully the club announces signings soon and we will continue to have huge success.
    Only time will tell either way...
     
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